Sex Without Substances 🏳️‍🌈 A Queer Recovery Podcast 🎙️

Today's Topic is Sex Without Substances. 

🏳️‍🌈 Have any questions, comment or suggestions? Wanna be a guest co-host?

 🏳️‍🌈 Join Anthony & LouiLou for a new episode every Monday.  We record live from The Castro Country Club in San Francisco.

 🏳️‍🌈 We strive to create a brave space where we engage in topics of recovery, where there are no outside issues.

 🏳️‍🌈 Find us on all podcast channels: At The CCC

🏳️‍🌈 To send us a voice message or ask a question: go to https://www.castrocountryclub.org/podcast

#Queer #Recovery #LGBTQIA2S #Service #selfcare #selflove #SoberSex #SoberSexy

Transcript

Welcome, you are at the CCC!
Where there are no outside issues, my name is Anthony, I'm an addict and an alcoholic,
another bozo on the bus, and I care about you.
And I'm Louis Lou, my pronouns are he and him and I'm recovering from Crystal meth and alcohol,
and I'm always in search of balance.
Yes, and each week we strive to foster a brave space where we can engage in conversations,
centered around topics of recovery.
And our intention is to hold an inspire better spaces for more people in recovery by tackling
issues sometimes used to separate us.
Yes, but before we do that, please like, share, comment,
and rate this episode.
Subscribe, please, too.
You know, sometimes when you say I want you to say,
"Wait, like, subscribe."
Share, like, subscribe.
Wait, no, I remember.
How do you normally say it?
Like, share, share, like, subscribe.
Sprive, smash the like button.
Smash the smash, smash, smash, smash.
[LAUGHS]
Absolutely.
Ding that bell.
That's what we have in set in the long time.
I know, ding that bell.
Ding, ding, ding.
Ding, ding.
and now the disclaimer, the thoughts and opinions expressed on at the CCC are
ours alone we do not represent anyone but ourselves in other words, we're just a couple of
friends behind a mic here to entertain you.
And of course, everything we talk about is for general information purposes only.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Generally informed.
How are you doing Becky?
I'm fine Becky.
I'm a god.
I'm a god.
I'm a god.
I'm good.
It's a little warmer in the room.
I'm really hoping that the mics aren't picking up the computer.
They don't.
They don't.
- No, and they never do.
- And they never do, they never do.
- They never do, so I'm like, I'm all.
But it's like, I'm all, I worry because you're like a kiddie cat
that doesn't wanna be cold and I wanna be cold.
- I do not wanna be cold.
- Yeah, exactly.
- I do, someone did tell me I'm more cat than I am dog.
- Yeah, no, it's understandable.
- Yeah, how are you?
- I am good, I, you know, that's good.
You know, I'm really working on character defects,
specifically like--
- Well, you must be busy.
- No, wait, exactly.
- Wow, wow, wait, where is it, where is it?
- Exactly, no, no, specifically the control part,
and at work.
And I'm seeing some, it's uncomfortable,
but I'm seeing some kind of,
seeing some slow growth, you know, it's a struggle,
'cause I like things to be the way I like them,
and the worst is I'm in a situation
because I'm a supervisor there where I have,
some of it's justified, some of it,
but you know what, I need to find a way,
I want to find a way to kind of do what I need to do
with a little more grace.
- A little bit more grace.
- Yeah, exactly.
- Yeah.
You know what I thought you were gonna say?
I thought you were gonna say,
I like having things the way that I like them
because I'm a very girl.
- No, no, no, no, no, no, no, exactly.
(laughing)
But it is, no, it's like, that's just 'cause I'm me.
- It is.
So today's topic is sex without substances.
(bell rings)
- Oh.
- Sex without substance.
- I know, well.
- Yeah.
- So the other day I was in a group, group sex?
- No.
- No, no group sex.
- I know.
- I think I'm too shy for that.
So they were, there was, and I've heard this a few times,
he was a gay man who, you know,
methwas is a drug of choice.
and he's talked about how sobriety has ruined his sex life.
He's newly sober.
- Yeah, okay.
- And it's so funny, it's like I'm all,
honey, you haven't even given yourself a chance.
It's like I'm all, yeah, my sex life is all.
- Yeah, but for a lot of people,
you know, they're drinking and using
was very much linked up with having sex either
because it helped them feel more confident
or more comfortable, right?
were substances involved in a lot of your sex life?
- You know what, honestly, it's like,
from the time that I lost my virginity
up until the time that I got sober,
I looked back on it and I realized
that I was always under the influence of something.
- No way.
- And I, at one point, was questioning whether or not
I was even gay.
- Oh.
- You know, because I realized that,
you know how sometimes folks behave a certain way
because not because they are that,
because they fear something or whatever,
or whatever the situation is, or hating it.
And so I had to kind of step back
and see what's going on.
Yeah, no, they were tied.
They were completely tied and I really feel like
you become, you know, with the work that we're doing,
you become like a surgeon, a world-class surgeon
because the work is very fine tuned, separating out.
because they're so kind of ingrained.
- Yeah, yeah.
Well, so, so,
there were whenever I drank,
I did, whenever I drank,
I almost always wanted to hook up.
And I think part of that was
because drinking,
you know, made it more comfortable for me.
And by that, I mean like,
I felt like I had more courage
or I felt like,
I'm more interesting or more appealing,
just any number of things, right? And then when I stopped drinking, I had to figure out
what my sexuality was. I'm like, "Wait, what do I like? What do I like? What don't I like?"
That's a tough one because it's like, you go and doing, and we talked about last episode
it's like, you know, it lowered my inhibitions. It allowed me to do the things that I probably
would have eventually done, but I did them, I didn't so fast that I didn't know whether
or not it was my choice or, you know, and clearly it wasn't my choice.
Oh my God, I have a story for you.
Uh-huh.
Okay, so there was this one time I was hanging out with a bunch of my friends and some of
them like, like they drank or did drugs and stuff like that and they had this, there was
like this one guy who's like a friend of a friend who was into me, right?
But at the time I was sober, right?
I mean, I've had relapses, but at the time I was sober.
And I remember, he, the long and the short of it is like, we end up in the same room,
right?
I think you told me this story.
Did I?
Yeah, you told me this story, but it happened a long time ago.
Yeah.
Yeah, I remember telling you this story.
Yeah, it happened, I think it happened like five years ago.
- Yeah.
- So guys, I was like, what story?
Cause I've told you so many.
- Yeah, no, exactly.
I listen intently, cause I learn new things every time
I'm like, this bitch.
- Yeah, yeah, so okay, so what was really interesting
about this whole situation was I was obviously sober
and he was not sober.
- Yeah.
- And like he was, like he had like set a couple suggestive
things or whatever.
And I was like, "Mm, okay, we'll see where this goes."
(laughing)
Because I thought he was coherent enough.
And then at some point, I'm like, wait a minute.
Number one, although he's the one initiating all of this stuff,
my first thought was like, "Motherfucker, you are drunk.
"You are drunk and you are high.
"You cannot consent to any of this shit."
And then I was thinking about the way I used to feel
after hooking up, and then I would sober up,
and then I'm like, "What the fuck did I just do?"
- Yeah, exactly. - You know?
So I was like holding that stuff for him too
and thinking to myself, like this is just like,
not a good look.
But the comical part of all of this to me was,
is like, I think he thinks he was being so fucking sexy
and so smooth.
And I'm thinking to myself, like, bro,
you were so off the mark, like there's nothing
about this situation that's enticing.
I think the only reason why, like I entertain it
for a couple of minutes was, you know, he was cute.
And we were having fun, like we were hanging out
and stuff like that.
but it was so fucking dumb.
- Uh-huh.
- And I just remember thinking to myself,
like, oh my God, is this what I was like?
You know what I mean?
- I think the problem, like when I was drinking,
when I, okay, so there was periods where I was drinking
and because I'm clearly an alcoholic
and I clearly, you know, that's where it starts.
I was a mess.
I was a mess.
And most of the situations that I found myself in,
they were, I stumbled into them, you know?
Like I stumbled into them
and whatever, but it wasn't until the shift with,
crystal meth is an interesting drug,
because I felt like I had more control of me,
and my libido was supercharged.
And so I feel like that's one more of the experiences
when I say like I probably had more experiences
then faster than I would eventually have,
the inhibitions were down.
With alcohol, I would just wake up next to people
and I have to gnaw off my arm,
I'm like, I gotta get out of here.
- Yeah, I remember one particular.
I was living in Sacramento.
(laughing)
I was living in Sacramento and I was out at the bar
and I was drinking for some reason
and I don't really, I look back at how reckless I was,
but I blacked out and when I came to,
There was some guy I was in his room
and he was telling me to stop trying to eat,
to, you know, to rim him, you know, and whatever.
And, and he was making demands and whatever.
And-- - Well, what?
- He might have.
- No, no, he might have.
- I think that I was doing what I would normally do
when I was going near and he was saying,
I told you I don't want that.
It's like I'm all, and finally I like,
I remember just getting up and saying, you know what?
Okay, the concern that I have is that you brought me home
in this condition.
(laughing)
- You knew what you were getting.
- What is your problem?
It's like I'm all, of course, I didn't have a higher moral
ground or whatever.
But yeah, I tell that story because alcohol, I was a mess.
I didn't have, I was not in control of anything.
- Okay, I have a story.
- Yeah, go ahead.
- So this is back when I was drinking.
So one of the things that I used to do when I would go out
I was drinking is I would find someone that I thought was attractive.
I would go up to them and I'd be like, "Hey, we're going to be boyfriend tonight."
And normally it would work, right?
And I would hang out with this person, I would drink with this person, and we would be
boyfriends for the night.
So there was this one time I was at the cafe actually.
And there was this really cute guy and I told him, "Hey, we're going to be boyfriend
tonight. We were having a really good time. Okay. So fast forward, I wake up in his bedroom.
And I turned to him and I go, "Did we fuck?" And he goes, "No, we didn't." I was like,
"Oh, okay, good." And then I go, "How did I get up here?" He's like, "Well, while we were
at the cafe, you grabbed my hand and you told me we were going to be boyfriends and then
you disappeared." And then at the end of the night, when I went, you were laying on the
pavement. So apparently I was out with a bunch of my drinking friends, I had passed out on the
pavement and no one fucking thought to take me home or thought to wake me up because maybe they
were also fucked up. So this guy felt bad for me and walked me to his place and let me sleep
there. And I was like, and I love it your first thing. Did we fuck? Yeah. So, so, so okay, I get sober,
long down the line, right?
And years later, and I bumped into him,
and I went up to him and I was like,
hey, I just wanted to tell you thank you.
A few years ago, I was drunk on the street
and he told me you took me to your place
and he goes, I have no idea who you are.
- Please, please, leave me alone.
- He's like, I don't remember this happening
and I have no idea who you are and I was like,
that's fine.
- No, that's okay, it's totally fine.
But you know, I thought, but there's a way that like I look back at those moments.
Yeah.
There was a time when I was like struggling to get sober and I would look back and I'm like,
"Oh, I missed that.
I missed that.
I missed that."
The chaos of it all.
Yeah.
Like I always joke and say like, "I miss the times when I used to sneak around."
Like there was a, there was that year, it was like that prerequisite year before like
I started to come out to people.
Okay.
Where I was, sneaking around like, there was this one bookstore in Mountain View.
I lived in Mountain View at the time.
And it was on El Camino Real in the main street.
And I would park all the way over by at the library, walk blocks or whatever.
And then I would have to look around and cross and look around to see if any cars were
coming or if anybody was there.
And then I'd go in and then I'd go in the booth and do my thing.
And that was fun.
I mean, I'd get some of that at Sex Clubs and the park, but whatever.
- You're talking, it was exciting.
- It was exciting.
- And I think that to the topic,
we, okay, so I feel like,
just like with addiction,
the excitement, the energy,
that, you know, the kind of craziness
or the frenetic, whatever that we had to deal with.
Like,
it was really tough and unlearning,
unlearning, getting to a place where you're like,
Okay, sex can quiet and gentle and sensual
and essentially or it could be kinky white.
- Well, it could be all of those things,
but I think that you have to, you have to figure,
I mean, I think you have to start,
you almost have to start fresh.
And, and,
- So let's talk about that.
- The process was faster.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- Like, what was your process?
- Okay, so here, okay, so,
I get sober, not having a sex
because I gained a bunch of weight or whatever.
And I remember going to CMALA.
This is a perfect example.
- You gained weight so you didn't feel comfortable
having such a good experience.
- I didn't feel comfortable, so I wasn't having sex.
So I was back to this awkward kind of social awkward
or whatever.
And I remember this guy showed interest in me
at the conference and we chatted and chatted
and at the dance at night we kissed.
And that was all.
I didn't do anything because me being the whore
that I am normally I would have done everything
all weekend long and then with other people.
But no, that was all I could do.
And it was my version of hookin' up.
It was great.
And it was little things like that
where I was reclaiming those experiences.
You know, it's almost like I used to listen,
well, it was exactly like I used to listen to house music
and for the longest time I couldn't listen to house music
'cause it would take me back there.
So then I started listening to it while I was at the gym
and other places so that was reconditioning.
And that was like--
And then so--
I love that.
It was slowly but surely.
And by the time I got back, and I mentioned before,
like, around a certain time I started going
to the place spaces or whatever, on certain nights.
Like, I was uncomfortable with my body,
so I decided to go to naked night.
Work.
And don't ask me where this courage
or what I was coming from, but I started doing that
and it was great.
And then I started exploring a little more.
And--
- It's exciting and as a sober person.
- Exactly.
And we see more about what that was like.
- Yeah, yeah.
- Well, it was scary.
It was scary.
It was like, I definitely had fear
because I was thinking, you know, I'm not enough.
And also, it's like I didn't have the same kind of,
I didn't feel like I had the same kind of prowess or powers
that I had, the powers that I had when I was using.
Yeah, no, it's like, and I had to be present.
I had to be present until I wasn't,
because that was another thing too.
Like, making sure that I didn't start using that to check out.
You know how we were transferring.
Yeah, yeah.
With all of a sudden, it's like, I'm all this good.
It's like I can do it, so I'm gonna keep doing it.
I'm gonna keep doing a lot of it.
Well, see, you're talking about something
that's actually quite exciting, which is,
you're talking about getting out of your comfort zone.
And this reminds me of something Mary once said,
you know, Mary, former chair, I wasn't
say, older Mary, but that seems rude.
One of the things she says, and I think I've talked
about it before, she says, the truth is invigorating.
Yeah, oh yeah.
Right?
So when you do the thing that you fear,
you do the thing that you avoid,
like when you get to the other side of that,
it can feel like a high.
- No, absolutely.
- It can 100% feel like a high.
And that, I think, is like how you make sobriety exciting.
- Oh yeah, exactly.
- And you're awake for the experiences.
Have you ever had a, as a sober person,
have you ever had to have an uncomfortable talk
about sex with someone?
No?
Well, I'm thinking of what I had.
What do you mean like not wanting to have sex with?
- Well, no, I'll just, go ahead.
- So it was a leading question,
so that I can talk about something.
So I was in this situation where a friend and I
were attracted to each other.
And we had sent kind of like flirty text messages.
And at some point we hung out and he said,
"Hey, can we talk about the text messages?"
And I said, "Yeah, of course."
And he was, well, are we hooking up?
Are we not hooking up?
And I go, you know, I'm really glad you brought this up.
No, we're not hooking up.
Yeah, I was like, no, we're not hooking up.
It seems really irresponsible.
And what I applauded in that situation was,
his response was a very sober response, right?
We weren't, he wasn't kind of like a lot,
he wasn't playing that game of like,
should I bring this up, should I not bring this up?
Because I think for me at least,
sometimes it can be very difficult
to have those kind of conversations
'cause they aren't sexy.
They take, you know, like when you say something like,
when you kind of like, okay, hey, let's talk about
this thing that we've been doing.
- Yeah.
- It can take the kind of fantasy and the lore out of it.
- Yeah, exactly.
- But what I thought was incredible
about that conversation is that it actually felt exciting.
- Yeah.
- You know, it was somber.
- Yeah.
- It was somber, it was sobering.
But I was like, oh, this is life on life's terms.
This is what it looks like to like be real
with another person.
So yeah, that was a little uncomfortable.
'Cause it's not a conversation I'm used to having.
So I was wondering if you had any experiences like that.
- Well, I feel like I have and I feel like I,
actually, the conversations that I've actually had,
not like, it's where,
I realize that I can be as honest as I can,
but if the other person,
even though the other person says they can be honest,
like it doesn't always mean they, or they're open to the, the honors.
To the extent that they can.
To the truth away.
And so I've had situations where I've connected or I've hooked up with folks in recovery.
And I'm all, so this is what this is.
You know how my attitude about, it's what this is.
And I would rather be a safe space for you than have this experience if this is not
something that you can handle.
Because I know what this is.
This is what it is.
I don't want to give you the impression
that it could become something else.
- Yeah.
- And I think that's where,
that's probably where it gets uncomfortable
because I mean, I know what happens to me is like,
I may start off being all in love with you or whatever,
but it's like the sands in an hourglass
It's like as the sands are dropping my interest
and knowing that is half my bad.
- It's a gamble.
- Yeah, it's a gamble.
Personally, I, you know, I,
and I've,
so I try, I get,
I'm very conflicted around the idea of
separating sex from intimacy.
- Oh yeah.
- I think that you can have casual sex in it,
can feel very intimate,
but I think there's something that happens to my body,
You know, like a lot of like the vast majority of my sexual experiences have been like casual,
they've been like hookups and of course I've had relationships, sex and relationships.
But those are very different experiences for me. And one of the things that I think about is,
you know, what is happening when I do that? You know, I mean, I think that's something that I
question as a gay man. Am I being suffocated by heteronormative ideas? Is there something wrong
with me if I don't want to do certain things? And these are questions that I get to ask myself
as a sober person. These are not questions I was asking myself before. And like you, I also have
the ability to like hook up with someone and then once we're done we're done.
Yeah, exactly.
You know.
I feel like, I feel like for me it's like I know that I want to have the experience in
the experience.
I want to have all the connection, the intimacy and the mutual kind of respect and whatever
and then outside of it, you know, not that I'm going to be like all of a sudden I leave
like severance and forget about you.
Actually, something that just happened the other day.
- Tell me.
- Someone that I've been connecting with on a regular basis,
probably more than I've connected with anyone else.
We had a moment I went.
I had been kind of uncertain if I wanted to follow through
with this, if this was what I need it because,
you know, we connect, and we have a type of intimacy,
but there's no making out or whatever.
And I feel like it's something that I can have
at a sex club and not, I wouldn't bring it into my own space.
Like, it's just not.
Anyway, we were talking and I jokingly said something
and I said something about being fearful of behaving
in a certain way because this individual's like mean
or whatever, but I didn't say it like that.
And I think it affected him in a weird way or whatever
because I was like, you know what I'm sorry, I need to stop.
And--
- He did?
- Yeah.
- And I totally respect that,
'cause even when I was using, I was always like,
I'm good, it's like if this is what you don't want,
that's fine.
But in that moment, I had a aha moment.
- What was it?
- I don't know, I realized it's like,
okay, so we've been connecting all this time
and you don't know that,
that sometimes my love,
language is sarcasm, or that my goal is not to hurt you.
My goal is to not...
And we haven't...
Because it's been a slow build to the intimacy that we have,
it's like, I realize that even though it's hot,
it's just not what I want.
It just doesn't serve...
I don't think it serves either of us.
- Yeah, I think, yes, yes.
So for me, like as I get older,
I'm noticing that my sexual appetite has changed
like the things that interest me and don't interest me.
Right now I don't feel particularly sexual
and I haven't for a really long time,
probably 'cause I'm very stressed out,
I have a lot of stuff going on.
And I think that's also a very sober experience
because there was a time where I was drinking,
when I was drinking and using it,
I was having sex when I didn't want to have sex.
I was having sex with people I didn't want to have sex with.
- And it's sex I have my own place now, I can do it.
- Yeah.
- Like I'm all.
- Yeah.
Yeah.
And so I think part of sex without substances
is allowing, at least for myself,
to what is sexually like satisfying for me to change.
You know I'm being open to those things changing.
And the other part of this is like,
and getting real about the practicality
or rather the very human nature of sex
that is, it can be awkward, it can be uncomfortable,
it can feel clumsy, right?
Like it's not a fucking porn, right?
Like, porn's generally like carefully curated.
- Oh, exactly, I'll look at the stage.
- Yeah, but like if you're with another human being,
another living human being, you're gonna have,
like something happens, you know,
and that to me is very grounding.
And that's what it means for me at least
to what it means to have sex as a sober person, right?
And I have to abandon ideas or fantasies of what can happen.
Like yes, you can have your kinks, yes.
You can have the things that you wanna get into.
But then you almost have to abandon that stuff
when you're with another human being.
- Absolutely.
- Yeah, yeah.
Here's the other thing.
As a sober person,
I am now more fully aware of the other person
that is to say,
you have people in your life that love you,
you are worthy of happiness,
serenity to have a life that makes sense to you.
And I would be an absolute fucking asshole
if I wasn't holding and honoring that
whenever I'm being physically intimate with you.
- Yeah, exactly. - Right?
And I think that's very different.
'Cause when I was drinking and using it,
I really wasn't too concerned with the other person.
I was really self-interested.
And I think that when you take substances out of the picture
and I think just about the kind of program
that I work with 12 step and that your values start to shift.
- Oh yeah, and I can tell,
on the same token, it no longer feels comfortable,
no longer feels right when you're with someone
who you can tell is very obviously not present.
Like, there are some people that just get what I want,
just get what I want or whatever.
It's like, it's always been, I don't wanna feel like,
I'm doing, you're doing me a favor,
or I'm like some charity case or whatever,
or I'm clocking in the work.
- All right.
- Oh God, it's like, oh, I hate that.
It's like, what am I, a product?
- Yeah, yeah.
- Unless that's what we plan on doing tonight,
that's our role play.
You know, I don't like role plays.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- I'm just getting in the way of what I came for.
(laughing)
- Bang, bang, bang.
- Yeah, I think, yeah, there's just this topic
in particular,
It kind of resonates deeply with me because it's always been something that I've always
been a little confused about.
You know, like I've always been a little confused about like what are my needs, you know, sexually.
What are my needs with respect to intimacy?
They can change.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
even and this is you know when to say you know it you know how to say women have
the program like women have the what the prerogative like to change their mind
like I found it recently it's like an in perfect situation I was online I was I'm
gonna hook up or I was on one of those one of the sites and I post it that I was
interested or I was horny or the whatever and then instantly like I'm all okay
I think I've been doing this alone, I'm done.
But this guy hits me up and he's like,
and then I told him, it's like,
you know what, I think I'm winding down.
And he's like, yeah, I just saw your post.
It's interesting that you're winding down
after you just posted that.
I said, yeah, I've been doing this for a little bit.
And also, it doesn't matter.
I changed my mind, I'm done.
- Yeah, well, yeah.
I mean, that's a whole, that's a whole other topic,
which is like the toxicity of hookup apps
and like the way--
- I like to call people out and say,
you know what, if you can't handle this,
you probably shouldn't, this is advanced adults.
- Yeah, that's one of the things,
so in my dissertation research,
I did some, I had some peripheral findings
around violence and hookup culture,
but specifically via apps, right?
And it's like, it was overwhelming how many stories
I started to collect around people like being called
racial slurs, being called F slurs, being called,
just totally--
- Or you have somebody hit you up and then,
and then when you say that you're not interested,
they like it's like arguing with somebody online.
You're fat.
- Yeah, so it's a very, and here's the thing is that
with, this is what I've always thought.
When people are on hookup apps,
It's kind of like their drunk.
If they're on the app because they're horny,
like if you're hungry, angry, lonely, tired, or horny,
you're not gonna think straight.
You're not gonna behave.
You're not gonna be on your best behavior, right?
And so I think that's part of what happens
on these apps is that you're essentially everyone's drunk.
You know, everyone's--
- That is exactly it.
- And so people are not on their best behavior, you know?
And there's a way that that's been kind of,
I guess I think a lot of people think it's like
part for the course, you know, like this is just the way it is.
Did I just lose your interest?
- No, you didn't, it's like I'm not.
- While I was talking--
- It busted my watch.
- Lewis looked at his phone and then his watch,
he pointed to his watch and said, "Rap it up, Anthony."
- No, I did not, I did not.
I live for you.
- I live for you.
- Yeah, no.
- I'm scratching my chin with them.
(laughing)
- Yeah, this is why, okay.
- It's like before it used to be burping.
And I'll have that other day.
- I'm not burping anymore.
- I'm not gonna, I'm gonna have to mark the mics.
- I've grown out of burping into the mic.
So, you know, what does,
I guess what does your sex life look like now?
These days?
- You know what's interesting is like,
I think that I wanna hook up whatever and usually I don't.
That's sort of, and kind of what you've talked about.
- Is that when people think they're hungry
but they're actually just thirsty?
- Yeah, exactly.
You know, I tell you what it looks like, it's a little convoluted.
Okay.
It's messy right now.
It's messy because I do this thing where I say, "I'll be scrolling them a TikTok, but
I'll sign in and put a little eye emoji like I'm looking in the sex just because I want,
maybe I want the attention or whatever."
And I've had like these guys that I find desirable, who will send me messages or whatever, and
they'll be right around.
But, and then I'm like, no, I don't want to host you at my place because I don't want
to have to deal with this.
Or, no, I don't want to go to you.
I don't want to travel.
I don't want to host.
I don't want to travel.
And so, I think what's going down is that I am just not certain right now.
I'm not certain.
And it's, and that's a really good thing.
That's better than it was because before I was just like out of control.
Yeah.
And you know what?
We were talking about this earlier before we turned on the mics.
You don't have to fuck everyone you're interested in.
No, you don't, but you can try.
Yeah.
You don't have to have sex with every single person you think is attractive.
No, God.
It is possible to cultivate a friendship.
And again, I am a sex positive as the next person.
And one of the observations I've made
of people in early recovery is that they all
over and over again, I see this
and I've been in the rooms for over 10 years.
They will see someone at a meeting, they think is cute
and immediately go on the hunt.
- Oh, exactly.
- And it's like, you know what, you don't need a chase.
- Exactly.
- I'm gonna run up every tree.
- Not at all.
- Not at all.
- Not at all.
- It's like a creating, creating, you know,
there's so many reasons why it's not good
'cause it creates an unsafe, uncomfortable environment.
- Yeah.
- You get a reputation.
- Well, here's the thing.
Who gives a fuck about the reputation?
- I do, no kidding.
(laughing)
- I'm the last person who's gonna tell you.
- I know, exactly.
- I'm the last person who's gonna tell you,
So we get you know all over
you and all of a sudden
we're bulldozing it.
Yeah, but it's not like--
Grandma, boy I'm a woman.
No.
And my advice to anyone
listening is like, don't
give a fuck about what
anyone thinks of it.
You're reputable.
What the fuck is that?
And I get it.
And also who cares?
Yeah, you're right.
Yeah, absolutely.
But it does get messy, you know?
It gets messy and it can't get messy.
If you're like, if this is what you're trying to do, you, you don't want to be the reason why
it's not no longer safe for you. No longer, uh, no longer free. But I don't know, you know,
I'm saying, so it's like, yeah, it's, it's like the old expression you don't want to
shit where you eat. Exactly. Well, because it's like, I always say, you know, be careful
who you say hi to because you don't have to say hi to him again. And, and it's even worse if you
been intimate like that with them. Wait, what did you say? Be careful who you say hi to because you'll
you'll have to say hi to them again.
- Exactly, 'cause the worst is I have had, okay,
so I have had guys that I've hooked up with
in my active addiction or whatever
when they come into the rooms
and I'd be a little embarrassed that I chose the way I chose
and one in particular was very kind of vocal about
like he would make cheeky comments and--
- Oh. - And--
- In front of people.
- Yeah, and-- - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it was clear that he had seen me naked,
describing me and, you know, and I'm thinking it's like,
okay, that's what I say, be careful who you say hi to
because there are some people just like,
yeah, there's some people that like, don't remind you.
- Yeah, eyes wide open.
- Eyes wide open.
- Eyes wide open.
- Eyes wide open.
- Yeah, eyes wide open.
I think maybe that's the moral of the story.
Do whatever the fuck you're gonna do.
- Uh huh, exactly.
Just be, but just realize that you have
to take responsibility for the change that you make.
Can't blame anyone.
No victims here.
- No, no, no victims here.
Of course, I'm not talking about sexual assault.
- I know.
- You know what I mean?
- Yes, no.
- But yeah, no victims here.
You know, in the big book it says,
we, I'm paraphrasing, of course.
We eventually figure out that a lot of our problems
are of our own making.
- I know, and that sucks.
It's like a moment.
- Yeah, if you find yourself wrapped up in some drama,
think about it. How did you get there? And just to just you know, I watch my drama on TV,
so if you feel compelled to.
What you have too many issues and I'm not subscribing.
Yeah, just eyes wide open. And I think I don't know. I don't have any.
I think I don't really have much else to say about.
No, I feel like we're landing the plane.
- I think we are landing the plane.
- We're landing the plane because we're starting to get punchy.
- I know, and this is probably when we're at our best.
- This is when we're at our best.
Shall we land this plane Louis?
- Yes, so I was gonna say, welcome to this.
(laughing)
- You're gonna read from the beginning.
- You were at the CCC.
- You were at the CCC, it's like, oh my God, it's like a mom.
- The Castro Country Club?
- The Castro Country Club is a safe,
- Are you serious?
>> Yeah, let's do this.
>> The Caster Country Club is a safe and sober community
center for all people in a refuge
for the LGBTQ Recovery Community.
>> We provide programs and services
that help change lives by supporting personal growth.
>> And our vision is to reduce the suffering
of addiction by connecting people to community,
opportunity and support.
>> You can find more information,
including all the ways to contact us at www.castrocountryclub.org
up slash podcast.
>> And don't forget, you can check out new episodes
Every Monday.
- Every Monday. - Every Monday.
- Yeah, I think they're released in the morning.
- Sometimes any afternoon. - Sometimes on Tuesday.
- But it's gonna be a Monday.
It's sometimes on Tuesday.
(laughing)
Brandon, you hear that?
Do you hear that, Brandon?
Brandon does his best.
- He does.
(upbeat music)
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