What's Love ❤️ Got To Do With It, In Recovery 🏳️‍🌈 A Queer Recovery Podcast 🎙️

Today we talked about Love in all of the different spaces: Plutonic Love, Romantic Love, Love for Community.  

🏳️‍🌈 Have any questions, comment or suggestions? Wanna be a guest co-host?

 🏳️‍🌈 Join Anthony & LouiLou for a new episode every Monday.  We record live from The Castro Country Club in San Francisco.

 🏳️‍🌈 We strive to create a brave space where we engage in topics of recovery, where there are no outside issues.

 🏳️‍🌈 Find us on all podcast channels: At The CCC

🏳️‍🌈 To send us a voice message or ask a question: go to https://www.castrocountryclub.org/podcast

#Queer #Recovery #LGBTQIA2S #Service #selfcare #selflove

Transcript

Welcome, you are at the CCC.
Where there are no outside issues, my name is Anthony, I'm an addict and an alcoholic, another
bozo on the bus, and I care about you.
And I'm Louilou, my pronouns are he and him I'm recovery for crystalmeth and alcohol,
and I am always in search of balance.
Yes and each week we strive to foster a brave day so we can engage in conversations centered
around topics of recovery.
And our intention is to hold and inspire better spaces for more people in recovery by tackling
issues sometimes used to separate us.
before we do that, please like, share, and rate this episode.
- Share, subscribe, tell your friends about us.
- Do what you do.
- Do what you do.
You know, if you gossip, gossip about the podcast.
- Absolutely.
- If you spread the good word, include us in your good word.
(laughing)
- And now the disclaimer, the thoughts and opinions
expressed on that the CCC are,
ours alone we do not represent anyone but ourselves.
In other words, we're just a couple of friends
behind the mic here to entertain you.
And of course, everything we talk about
is for general information purposes.
- General information.
- General information.
- Yeah, how are you doing?
- How are you doing?
- I'm okay.
- Same here, I'm okay too.
- What makes you say you're okay?
- It was a long week, but it's like, you know, it's okay.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, you know, honestly, I heard someone say,
I don't know if I shared it on before.
Okay, so there are usually five things
I can celebrate about life,
and there are usually five things that I can complain about.
So I try to meet somewhere in the middle.
- Okay.
(laughs)
- Oh, I thought you were gonna share with those five.
- No, no, no, no. - All 10 things, sort of.
- No one's saying it's like, so it's 10 things,
but it's like, 'cause I think I, the go to,
and I think it's a very San Francisco thing to complain.
Like, I complain about the weather.
I complain about it when it's hot, when it's cold,
when it's raining or whatever, but it's not
that I'm really complaining about it's just,
I'm just complaining, just to talk.
- Just to talk. - Just to feel empty space,
which is absolutely nonsense.
So I've been working yet, not complaining,
because I realize, you know what?
whether or not you, whether or not I know it or not,
I am really kind of shaping the energy.
I'm moving the hand and how,
yeah, I don't wanna be that person.
I want everybody to be happy.
- here here.
- Yeah.
- I mean, happy is good, but we need variety.
- Well, oh yeah.
(laughing)
I completely get it.
It's like I'm all, and I love this thing
and every life some rain has got a fall.
That's just how it is.
- Yeah.
- But it's like, you know, and I didn't,
I didn't expect to always be happy sober,
but it's like I realize that, you know,
it's different than before.
Like when I was sad or going through it, whatever,
like you know how you're in something,
you don't feel like you're ever gonna get out of it.
- Oh, yes. - Yeah, so it's like,
so that's not the case.
It's like the worst is when I'm angry about something
and I'm holding onto it and I know I should just let it go
but I don't want to.
I'm like, yeah, that's some, that, that righteous like,
or that self-righteous anger.
Yeah.
How do we talk about?
Yeah.
I feel that.
I mean, I've had a very, I've been kind of holding,
well, I don't know if I want to talk about that
during this episode, but--
I know, it's like a mall.
Yeah, there's like true serum for you.
It is like true serum.
We'll talk about it after--
Yeah.
And you know, since you are listening to us,
I just turned to my chair so I could look directly at Lewis.
I'm a turned my too.
We'll be--
Because we're not--
Hey, sweetheart.
I love you.
- I love you more.
- You're my favorite.
- You're my favorite.
(laughing)
- I have to tell you about my weekends.
- No, please do.
- So my friend just had a bachelorette
and she's absolutely wonderful.
- This is the friend that always plans your...
- That's my friend, no, you're thinking
of my friend Melissa. - Okay, okay.
- This is my friend Ruth.
- Okay, nice.
- So he's hanging out with my friend Ruth.
- The book of Ruth.
- The book of Ruth.
Ruth is just a wonderful person.
She and Melissa and Denise have been like my ride or dies for a really long time.
They've always had my back.
And so we went and it was going to be the first time that there was this like merging of
her friend groups.
And her friend group, they were very big partiers.
They were like smoking weed and drinking and like I remember when we first got there,
we went to the grocery store and they bought like all this liquor and I'm like, well,
there's only so many of us here.
Like who's this all for?
- Yeah.
- You know, last, it--
- Why are you shocked or surprised?
It sounds to me like she, all of her friends are all the same
just on different ends of the spectrum.
- What do you mean?
- Because you used to be like that.
- What are you saying?
- What am I saying?
- Oh yeah, I used to be an active,
an alcoholic.
- That's the same, but they're on the same spectrum.
It's like, you know, they're no different.
That's the same.
- Well, actually, I think there is a difference here
because she didn't know me when I was drinking and using.
- No, but it doesn't matter.
- What do you say?
Maybe as attracted to folks that don't have any limits.
- I don't know.
I don't know.
- Still don't have limits.
You just are controlling.
You're not wanting to have limits.
- Okay, we're gonna, first off,
you haven't even listened to the rest of my story.
- Tell me the story.
- So, so, God.
So, and the book of Lewis.
(laughing)
Okay, so we were out and I was just,
The takeaway of this is I felt hyper aware of my sobriety.
And knowing what I know about them based on things
that Ruth has told me, I was thinking to myself,
"Oh, I think they're actually controlling themselves a lot
because we're here."
And so I felt like they couldn't fully enjoy themselves
because there was a sober person here
because I wasn't drinking.
My friends, my closest friends, they had one drink.
Meanwhile, they were like drinking and smoking
made throughout the entire day and like someone brought
shrooms. I mean, it was like, it was just, I was like,
oh, y'all were really trying to have a weekend, you know?
And so my friend Melissa and I and my friend Denise, we
decided we were going to leave a little early.
So that they could enjoy themselves.
Art.
Melissa and Denise, are they sober?
They're not sober, but they're like very responsible drinkers.
And they, I don't think either one of them as I were like,
I touched a drug outside of Virginia.
- How did your friend feel about you leaving early?
- Well, she knew I was gonna leave early.
She didn't know that the listen Denise.
'Cause my listen Denise decided last minute
that they were gonna leave her on the same time that I did.
And I think she liked the idea of our,
she was happy that we were there,
but the friends that were there
were her like childhood friends.
- Yeah.
I mean, that's the perfect,
in my mind that's the perfect kind of solution to that.
It's like I showed up for you,
but I'm gonna go so that you can really kind of--
- Yeah, I mean, that's not what I communicated to her.
And so the reason why I don't agree with your like,
assessment. - Assessment,
is because I feel like the groups represent
different parts of her life.
- That's what I'm saying.
- Yeah, so she met us in her professional world,
in her professional life,
and she's known her friends since childhood.
she's still underneath.
What do you say?
Tell me, tell me, tell me.
- It's very far off, but it's like there's still
something about you being an addict and alcoholic
that is attractive to her.
- Probably, I don't know.
- You know, maybe what it is,
it's not the drinking and the using of whatever.
It's the other stuff that we have to deal with
once we get to that and know.
- Well, you know the other thing is that,
you know, I really liked our friends.
I really did like all of them.
And I just felt like I couldn't access them.
like it was hard to connect and it hard to access
because they were drunk and high the whole time.
And it just made me so appreciative
for the people that I,
the sober people that I have in my life who aren't gone
because they're drinking and smoking.
- Yeah, that's true.
- And yeah, I came back and I felt so thirsty
for like connection, you know?
And I'm like, I was at Angel's thing this past week.
Well, just yesterday.
- The Cornation.
- Yeah, the Cornation, the step down.
- I was supposed to go, but it's like I told you,
it was like my back was doing a number
and a mini doesn't show up like--
- Yes, it's pain.
- Well, there was no way I could show up
and really be there fully present.
- Yeah.
- And so, and Linda was lovely.
She understood, she sent me a nice whole note.
So I hope to show okay, you motherfucker.
(laughs)
- No, but Saoni was able to fill in.
I'm all, oh, Saoni was there.
- Yeah.
- Nice, nice fill in black person.
- I love her.
- I do too, she's amazing.
And it worked out beautifully.
And the song was more suited for her.
like she rocks everything.
- Yeah, she's, she's, she's great.
- Yeah.
- So shall we ease into today's topic?
- Let's ease in.
- So today's topic is what's love got to do with it
and recovery.
So we'll be talking today about
loving all the different spaces,
platonic love, romantic love, love for community.
And just so important it is to,
you know, in one way I think reshaping
what love looks like.
- Absolutely, absolutely.
- You know, I'm curious, Lewis, about how have your ideas
of love changed since you got sober?
- You're quite hateful.
(laughing)
- Well, you know what?
So one thing I understand, and it's been a process,
but I get to love people the way I'm gonna love them.
But doesn't mean that I'm gonna get that love back.
And you've shown me that clearly.
- What are you?
(laughing)
- Ooh, you got me, that was real smooth.
That was very smooth.
- I'm here for you, okay.
- But no, but I, one of the things that I wanna do,
kind of like being a person with integrity,
I want to, I wanna be how I am,
and not have somebody's inability to kind of meet me
where I'm at, cause me to want to change that.
Meaning, like I'm gonna love you regardless
of whether or not you can love me.
- Yeah.
- Sometimes I have to love you from across the street.
I was sharing it.
I was sharing it in a meeting and I said,
well, sometimes I love people from across the street.
So if you see me across the street, wave an edge.
(laughing)
That's me loving you.
- That's me loving you, it's like a ball.
And so I've also learned that I have to be mindful
there are some people like,
and it gets all weird, that if I'm not careful,
my love can be toxic.
and I have to keep watch of that.
Like some of the things that I called love
or the things that I was doing for people,
whatever, in the name of love,
maybe it wasn't love, it was controlling.
It was, there are other things you could call it.
And so.
- Yeah, so what I'm hearing you say is that
once you got sober, you had to expand what it meant to love.
- Oh, absolutely.
- Love in the kind of broadest sense of the word.
And when you say loving someone from across the street,
what I'm hearing you say is like understanding
what your limitations are.
- Setting clear boundaries.
- Yeah, and boundaries, I think it's important to know
that boundaries are an expression of love.
- Oh, absolutely.
I think once people, like initially,
like when people were setting boundaries,
I mean, I was offended.
I'm like, how dare you?
But you know, when I set boundaries with you, clearly,
it shows that I want you,
You're preserving
- Yeah, yeah.
- You're preserving relationships.
And really, it's like, it's one of those things that we do,
like without knowing sometimes,
all those people who set boundaries for me,
they kind of inspired me to kind of focus on
what was important with me.
I heard it said, boundaries show me where I end and you begin.
And so that's pretty cool.
- I love that.
Yeah, so expanding.
- How about you?
- What about me?
- What's up?
(laughing)
- I forgot we were recording.
(laughing)
I was like, we're just chatting.
- I didn't, we're just chatting.
It's like I'm off.
- How about me?
You know, the first things that come to mind were
I fell like when I think back to,
I love this question.
(laughing)
- I know, it's your question.
- So I love the question.
- I was like, oh, that was clover.
- I know.
- Before I got sober, I was in a lot of pain all the time.
So I was always in relationships that didn't work out.
I was with people who were emotionally unavailable
and I was constantly angry and I was constantly seeking.
You know, I was like just as starved.
And this was true when I dated like girls and guys.
I think it's important to--
- You dated girls?
- When I was younger, I did.
- I know, I talked about that.
- So I came out when I was 14,
but I had this--
- Did they use strap-ons with you?
No. (laughing)
I loved him.
My first love was a girl.
Her name was Tamira.
And then, yeah, anyway,
I bring that up to say that
it didn't matter what the gender of the person was.
I had a type.
You know what I mean?
I dated people, I had an excrofer who made up
with my cousin or something like that.
And anyway, she's not doing very well these days.
- Oh, okay.
- No, she knows you.
- Or do you say your type, they were shady?
- No, emotionally unavailable.
- Yeah, emotionally unavailable, yeah.
- And what I was attracted to was like the anxiety
they produced, right?
So if they were unavailable, it made me really anxious
and it made me feel really insecure.
And so they became the poison in the antidote.
- You know, it was kind of an extension of what you knew.
- Yeah, for sure, it was like, you know,
I didn't have like the best love model for me growing up.
So, and so that's what I found.
You know, my dad was emotionally available
when I was younger, my, you know how it goes.
- You know, back to your question to you.
I'm learning that like, Platonic Love
is also a tool to teach me how to be ready
for romantic love as well.
- You know, let's come back to that.
Let's just make a note of that.
So I wanna finish answering your question.
- That in the parking lot.
- Yeah, put that in the parking lot.
So the biggest changes that happened were,
Like once I got sober and I started like looking
at my own shit, that's when I finally learned like,
oh, like the theme here is that I have romanticized
anxiety, I've sexualized anxiety.
- You mean to tell me you weren't looking
at your shit before?
- I wasn't therapy but I don't think I was like,
do you know what I'm trying to say?
- I was in looking at your shit in the best way.
- What do you mean?
(laughing)
You weren't.
- I can't believe that came out of me.
- No.
So, but here's the other thing is that looking back,
I don't know that this is general,
but I do think that all relationships
are perfect relationships, right?
People come together and they're perfectly aligned.
Now, that doesn't mean that the relationship is healthy.
It just means that you have people coming together
who have certain needs and wants during that time
and they're being met in that relationship.
- Oh, absolutely.
- Right, and so I think every relationship
can be a vehicle for like a deeper understanding
of self and other.
I don't think that we use people as vehicles,
but I think that when people come into our lives,
that can be a vehicle into self and other.
So once I got sober,
it took me a while to kind of shake some of that stuff off.
Like I was still kind of, you know, my ex before Benji,
I moved in with him just a couple months
into our relationship.
It was COVID time, so I justified it in that way.
- Okay, that makes sense.
- Yeah, but the point is that I had these behaviors,
like I wasn't given enough time to get to know people.
And to be fair, I was also like a fuckboy.
There were also times where I was like the person
who was not showing up to relationships and stuff like that.
So a lot has changed.
Now it's like, even when I met Benji,
It was, we, it naturally unfolded, you know,
I wasn't like looking for anything.
- I loved that you're using his whole name.
- We are using his whole name.
- Before he was like, it was a mystery.
- He was a mystery.
- It was like, you could sit back
and you could put the puzzle together
just listening to episodes.
But of course I always made sure to say,
oh gee, are we gonna mention relationships?
(laughing)
I'm such a, such a,
- So yeah, that's how it's changed for me.
And so, so like you, I think I've like,
I've expanded the Kauai Sea love.
So let's go back to this idea of platonic love.
So you were saying platonic love sets you up
for romantic relationships.
- Well, because, okay, so you know how I am
with this idea of a romantic love.
Like, I know that at some point it's going to be something
that I want, whatever, but I constantly,
I would see friends before and in recovery,
always getting in relationships,
always getting in relationships and thinking,
and I still have moments where I go back to,
oh God, I should be in a real,
And when I think I'm in my right mind,
and when I'm at peace, I'm clear that I'm just where I need to be.
And this is where I go to these platonic relationships,
because I'm in love with my friends.
I don't in love like maddening way that can change your brain
chemistry, but I love people.
You know that shift when you get to know people and say,
come on, we vibe.
And so I think that it's almost like the difference
between getting paid for a job and volunteering.
- I love that, 'cause I was just thinking about
one of the things I'm trying to stop doing on the podcast
is that I realized I say like a lot.
- 'Cause you're from California.
- But you've been California for a long time.
- I've been here for over 15 years.
- Say like more than that?
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I've been trying, I was like,
oh wow, I thought I would say like a lot.
- I'd say it would say a lot too,
it's like, "I'm all you're making me think about."
- Oh yeah, that reminds me of--
- That reminds me of--
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I'm thinking about it.
- I'm thinking about it, but it's all good.
- Maybe we go back to stopping yourself up for that.
- No, you want me to catch you every time you say like,
but you just said like--
- You punch me every time.
- No, the worst is one I'm in a meeting and,
and somebody's sharing from the floor,
or they're the speaker, and I have to start counting
the number of times they say you know.
I'm all, so basically it wasn't a 20 minute share.
It's probably a five minute share,
but you say you know the fun half of time.
And you know where I think, and you know where I think
like comes from for me is I think I adapted that
years ago when I was taking this communications course
and they talked about what are called disfluencies.
So disfluencies are like, like, yeah,
those are disfluencies and they said
that disfluencies make you sound more genuine or sincere.
and it but really I feel like,
but I don't think, I mean,
- I feel like the pause, I feel like,
I respect the pause.
- Yeah, I do, but we're also on a podcast.
- Yeah, I know exactly.
- We can't, we gotta keep the words going.
- I know exactly.
- So we were saying platonic love
and let's see, I lost track, I should have wrote it down,
but you were talking about platonic love
setting you up for romantic relationships.
- Absolutely, because it's like, again.
- Like, why wouldn't, okay, so,
You know how people say, oh, you're my best friend.
We're in love or whatever.
And I was thinking it's like, okay, so do you need to have
an idea of, or can you be platonically in love
with your love partner?
- So what I was just gonna get at is,
I was gonna ask you, what's the difference
between a platonic love and a romantic love?
And some people would say it would be sex,
it would be Eros, it would be lust,
they would, and, but then that also assumes
that in order for there to be romantic love,
there has to be sex.
And I have very close relationships
with people like my best friends
where I'm not trying to have sex with my best friends.
- And is it romantic love?
- I don't think it's romantic, no.
- So then it's important.
- Well, what I'm, yeah, I get it.
- Why do you make it difficult?
- Well, 'cause what I'm saying,
what I'm trying to get at here is that.
- Maybe the potential for sex.
for a romantic love?
- Yeah.
- Well, yeah, I mean, I know there's a distinction.
- Yeah.
- I think I'm just critiquing you a little bit
because I think, yeah.
- You don't wanna be like, you don't wanna leave
people who might be asexual or--
- No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
- No, I'm just thinking about like,
queering love, like what does queer love look like?
Which is like--
- Well, queer love.
It looks any way we want it to look.
- That's my point.
Yeah, that's my point.
- And so it, yeah.
Like there are bounds in hetero normative love and queer love if if we do it right breaks
Those and just can go this way and that way and and whatever
I'm looking up because I think it was like the Eskimos they have a bunch of different words for love and different types of love
I'm just looking not up
So yeah, you know and I heard pit bull recently there was an interview with pit bull and he was saying that
money that like the advice you got was that money couldn't buy happiness by giving it away could
Okay, and I think that love is very similar to that. Oh, yeah
Well, I I heard it said too that love is not love until you give it away. Mm-hmm. So it's like I'm all with no expectation
Yeah, but there's there's such a fine line between
Because I think there's a way that in some cases
When a person is giving away love they kind of give too much of themselves
And so then they start abandoning themselves and that's not love
That's not helping
I think just as the time when it's oh kind of okay to want some sort of return
What do you mean like
I
Think that
If you're paying attention and you're giving giving that love and give it 11 is not being received then you shift it like I'm all
That says I say oh yeah, okay
This is when I'm gonna love you from across the street because apparently
You can't appreciate what I have to give and I need to give it to somebody who can appreciate it
Mm-hmm, you know, it's not not that I need you to love me the way I want you. I love you
But I need if you can't even love me
You know the basics you can't even then
You know what's tough for for me with that is that everyone experiences and I've had this both in romantic relationships and platonic relationships is that
People experience love differently.
Everyone experiences it differently and expresses it differently.
And the thing that I've struggled with the most has been that I've been in relationships
where I'm all in, well this is really I'm thinking about my current relationship and
my last one actually, all of them.
Where I'm all in and the way I show up doesn't feel like it's good enough.
know it's like.
- Is that about you or about the other person?
I mean, there's a part in expressing that.
- So I think part of that, you know, I don't know,
I don't think there's an algorithm
for finding the right partner.
I also don't know that we find one partner.
I mean, I have so many, you know, who the fuck was that?
- But going back, yeah.
- I know saying about that algorithm,
but it's like, is it...
- Has it been that they tell you you're enough,
that this is enough and you don't believe it?
- Well, I'll just give you examples.
So, examples are that I don't say it a lot.
- As you don't say it a lot.
- That I don't say it a lot
and that I am not physically affectionate.
- Oh, so how do you show it?
Because there are some people who say it, say it.
- But the thing is that I am physically affectionate.
I'm just not as much as I am.
- As much as they might want.
- Right, and all of my exes
were people who wanted to like,
be petted all the time.
- Then this is where we learn that.
If that person is not able to,
it's kind of like what I was saying.
It's like if I know you're not gonna be
loving like me in the same way.
- Yeah.
- But if what you offer is not something
that I feel comfortable or confident about,
the responsibility is mine to make changes.
- Yeah, I mean, who knows?
Because I feel the common response to this would be like,
oh, well, you just haven't met someone who loves the way you love.
To your question, how do I show love?
And this is for all types of relationships.
I don't want to borrow from the love languages
because the writer of that book is problematic.
But the way that I express love is I do engage
in acts of service.
You know, like I love doing a thing for a friend.
(laughs)
Listeners, Lewis is doing something really crude
within my right now.
(laughs)
- But you know, like, accept service.
Like I'm the kind of person, like if we're close,
you need me to like prove free something
or you need me to write something for you
or you need a ear or you need,
you want help cooking, I'll make you something.
You know what I mean?
I'll help you move.
- If that's the case, I think the best possible person
to be with is someone who gets that this is how you know who is who's meeting you somewhere with that like
I also like time is a big one for me. I love giving people like if I if I love you
I'm gonna make time you know and
For some people that isn't enough for like for some people they need a lot of sex
So a lot of people some people need a lot of physical affection
And I'm I'm just some not that kind of person. That's when you that's when you like have those
Inquire relationships about whether or not the relationships should be open.
Right.
There's also that, you know.
There's also that.
And also, it just might be where I am in my life right now.
And this is where.
This speaks so, I think it's our Virgil nature.
It's like it speaks so clearly to why I'm not.
Every time I think I want to step over the edge and get into a relationship, I realize
I really like my me time.
I really like my time.
I'm even at that place with sex hookups.
Like, I have to be very mindful,
'cause there are a few guys that like I'll have repeats with,
but I also have to make sure that I have the energy
and the mindset.
Like I'm in the right mindset.
And so I think that for me it's fair.
And it's, you know what, this is crazy.
Okay, so there are folks that like I'm setting clear
boundaries, like I heard someone say, just because I free time or just because I'm available
doesn't mean that I'm available.
Like some guy wanted to connect and he's like, so when are you normally free and I realize
that was not an easy question because I can tell you when I'm normally off work and
have, but that does not mean that I am ready.
I'm free to hook up.
Yeah.
You know, there are a lot of times where I am free to do what I like to do is lie on my
bed and look at TikToks or to do nothing.
- Yeah, and what you're describing to me is,
it's one of the biggest changes that I think I've experienced,
which is there was a time when I was super consumed
with romantic sexual connections,
and now I value community a lot.
I just wanna be in community, I love my friends,
I love San Francisco, I love all the gay shit
that's around us, I love our community.
I love our sober queer community.
I love, you know what I mean?
(laughing)
I do, I just, I think we're like, we're dope-ass people,
you know, or creative.
Like there's just so much richness.
And so, and that's one of the biggest differences
is that I really value being out with friends
and talking and connecting.
And that's where I think, for me, life happens.
Life happens in those moments.
That was one of the biggest differences
when I came back from this weekend.
and I was at the event yesterday.
There were a couple sober people there.
Alex was there.
- I know, it's like when I see
- It's the least we're capable of in situations,
especially in situations where it's not all sober,
I'm safe.
- Yeah, I felt like, oh my God, I'm connecting with these people.
And arguably they've also been in my life
for a really long time.
- Yeah, it was just a very different.
- It was a different quality
and that's what I've grown to love.
Is that I've grown to love community.
And I have also, there's two things
that I've learned too while being in recovery
with respect to love is kindness doesn't cost you anything.
- Oh, absolutely not.
- And there's just something about like digging deep
into the parts of myself that are like loving and caring
and giving that that like makes it multiply
with inside of me.
- Ooh, that makes, you know what?
Honestly, I always talk about like, you know,
all of these years that I've been alive is like,
I just don't give freely of who I am.
But when I'm ready to, when I'm ready to give it,
That's when I've committed to loving you, you know?
- Okay, so you, this is amazing
because one of the things that I've been thinking about
is I, and this is something that I've been working on
is like returning back to myself,
is an order for me to have the experiences that I want
and order for me to live the kind of life that I want.
I have to do, I have to make room for me to like reenergize.
I have to make room like, I have to be in a head space
that allows for me to show up the way I want to show up,
which means that I have to take care of myself
going to this idea of self love.
It's like, am I eating well?
Am I eating through meals a day?
Am I drinking in enough water?
Am I getting exercise?
Am I doing things that make me laugh and make me happy, right?
Only when I have those things,
do I feel like I'm at my best?
- Oh yeah.
- And I think the other day I was talking
a mutual friend of ours and they were really annoyed
with someone.
I remember this quote I heard like years ago,
what basically it was, if you knew someone's history
you would never get upset with them.
- No, absolutely.
- You know, if you know someone's full story,
and of course I'm not saying that makes you a doormat.
- No, no.
- But it, you know, shortly I think it like takes
some of the pressure away, you know, the way we kind of--
- When you have more information,
it's like you get to make a decision.
It's like, oh, okay, you know,
'cause I've had some situations like that
where I was like all of a sudden I understand,
you know, someone will say something that,
and it'll put things in perspective
and you start to see a person a little differently.
- Yeah, you know, I make it a point in every interaction
and I really mean this.
And every interaction that I have,
I am constantly looking for something
in the other person that I love.
Like I'm constantly looking for it
because that is for me, it's a much better headspace to be in.
And it makes me feel good.
- I have moments like that.
And then like I know you witnessed their times
and I just give you a hug.
- Yeah.
- Because it's like, I do that too.
It's like, oh my God, this is amazing.
This is like, this is somebody
that I really deeply care about.
- Well, you know, thank you for that.
I love that.
- Yeah.
- He's gonna cry.
- No, I'm not gonna fucking cry.
- Come here, come here.
- I'm not gonna.
- Let it flow.
Don't fight it Anthony.
You see, fucking threw me off, Lewis.
- Oh, no, no, go ahead, go ahead.
- That was just my goal, my goal is to love you so hard
that you were who you love to try.
- Oh, looking for things that I love in people
and I have to admit that there are instances
where I'm trying to do that with someone
and it feels very difficult.
And what I assume is happening
is that that person isn't allowing themselves
to be kind of inquired into or like loved
because they're not there.
- Yeah, and what am I gonna do with that?
- Yeah.
to do with that. And I don't think it needs to be a profound experience every single time
you're, you know, you're out there and interacting with people, but it's a better set of
mind.
And that's the time when I have to love people from across the street. Like I'm going
to be there for you and try to give you an opportunity to get to a place where you
are open to it. We're are open to the exchange. But you know, it's like this is just, you know,
I think about, for example, like people who think they hate gay people, you know what
I mean, yeah, people who think they hate gay people or they hate people of color.
If we were all in a room and the lights were off and we were just being ourselves like
talking, we couldn't see each other, right?
And the lights were off.
Well, by that I mean like we couldn't see.
I had a professor, I had a professor once say to me, he said the greatest sin that God
committed on humanity was giving us the ability to see because you said that all of our
biases are based on the things that we can see.
That's what I mean by turning the lights off.
And so I think if we, basically if we took a bunch of people that thought they hated
each other and we couldn't see, we were just sharing a meal and we were just talking
about times we've had our heart broken or the things that we want for ourselves, I think
we would all sound the same.
Absolutely.
And I think that we would, there would be a sense of community.
And I think that that's also the same like we're out in the world and we're interacting
with people that we think we just like.
I think it's just so much easier.
Actually, maybe it's not easier.
Maybe let me pull away from that word, but I do think that connecting it feels smoother.
a much easier way of life than fighting everything and everyone.
Yeah, that makes sense.
I was looking for that.
The what?
For the closing script.
Oh, yeah, we're like wrapping up.
I have so many.
Now we're working.
We're still.
Well, I have the closing script too.
I do.
I was like, I was just going to look for the email that I sent you.
The text is at this one right here.
I'm little showing Lewis.
What while he's interrupting our episode to do things he could have done
before we started.
while we were putting things down the table.
And so while Lewis is doing that.
- Well, I was setting up by myself
because this one was so interesting.
- He was not setting up.
- Oh, I thought you were dead already.
- Okay, first of all, I want to--
- I thought it magically plugged in.
- No, no, no, no, no, no.
I want everyone to know that I showed up early
and I started moving things over to the studio space
before Lewis got here.
- Okay, thank you for it.
- And Lewis, when he did walk over, he carried what?
A blanket?
I don't care the blanket, you carried the blanket
'cause I wanted you to look homeless.
(laughing)
- That's not very nice.
- I carry it, I know, I carry it.
- I carry the mic stands, that wasn't very nice.
- So, are we landing the plane loose?
Do you have any closing thoughts?
- Well, I don't know, it's like, I think that,
because, okay, so I think what I also understand
about love is that it grows.
- If you water it.
- It grows if you water it, but also,
We have unlimited capacity for it.
And the thing about it is I don't have to cut it up.
I don't have to piecemeal it for people.
I can just love people deeply, whatever.
And that's interesting.
It shows up when you have friends
who don't fuck with each other.
- Like I have never been one to pick and choose.
The other thing is, and this is a whole other topic.
You know how people have their strict codes?
If I am dating someone, if I have dated someone,
and it doesn't work out,
and a good friend of mine wants to date them,
they can have them.
If I know, I know if I've gotten past the situation,
if I'm trying, if I'm upset over someone else
finding like something that,
and I had an experience where there's wonderful girls,
she was an opair, Sarah, and we're still good friends,
But we had one great weekend
'cause I had this big crush on her.
And we hung out for a bit,
but she got along more with my friend.
And one time I showed up at her place
and they were together and I'm like,
and so it was a little ego-bruzing,
but I also realized it's like,
from that point on, is like, you know what?
I can't control what somebody feels.
No?
As much as I would like to.
And also, they may have shaped how I must like,
I'm not giving you my heart.
So you can break it up and throw it in the garbage can.
- Yeah, loving, love is hard.
- Anyway, that was, that's the thing.
It's like it was so random and awful.
- Love is hard.
- Love is hard, but love is easy too.
It's easy when you get to a place
'cause I have friendships that are just so effortless.
You know, they don't require work.
You know, we have some friction, but we move past it.
Because there's forgiveness in there,
there's understanding, there's love and patience
and that, yeah, so good.
- It's wonderful.
- I think we can line up.
- Well, we can land the plane,
but there was one other thing I wanted to say.
And I think that Krylon says to me,
you know, Anthony, you can water the weeds
or you can water the flowers,
but whichever one you water is gonna grow.
(laughs)
- It's like that.
It's like there are two dogs.
- The dogs and the one that you feed.
- Is the one that wins the fight.
- But I have this thing when I said,
- One is a crack and the other is a crack and two.
You're a crack and.
(laughing)
- Okay, the Castro Country Club is a safe
and sober community center for all people
and a refuge for the LGBTQIA+ recovery community.
- We provide programs and services
that help change lives by supporting personal growth.
- Our vision is to reduce the suffering of addiction
by connecting people to community opportunity
and support.
- You can find more information,
including all the ways to contact us at www.castrocountryclub.org/podcast.
And tune in every Monday when new episodes drop on wherever you listen to podcast.
We'll see you at our next episode.
Absolutely.
Bye.
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