The First 5 Years 🎙️ Recorded Live at Finding Fellowship Retreat 🏳️‍🌈 A Queer Recovery Podcast

This was a special episode we recorded at the 2024 Finding Fellowship Retreat.  

Have any questions, comment or suggestions? Wanna be a guest co-host?

Recorded live at The Castro Country Club in San Francisco.

 We strive to create a brave space where we engage in topics of recovery, where there are no outside issues.

 Find us on all podcast channels: At The CCC

 To send us a voice message or ask a question: go to https://www.castrocountryclub.org/podcast

#relationships #queer #recovery #podcast #vulnerability #couragetochange #emotionalsobriety #restless #irritable #discontent #sobersex

Transcript

Welcome, you are at the CCC.
Whoa, can you turn that down?
Yes.
Now I sound like Anthony.
Where there are no outside issues.
I am LouiLou and my pronouns are he and him.
I'm recovered for Crystal Math and Alcohol and I am always in search of balance.
And each week we strive to foster a brave space where we can engage in conversations centered
around topics of recovery.
And our intention is to hold an inspire, better spaces for people in recovery.
These do.
But before we do that, please like, comment, and share on this episode.
Since it's podcast exclusive, please make sure you comment and like at any rate.
And now the disclaimer, Anthony does this all the time.
The disclaimer, the thoughts and opinions expressed on this at the CCC are ours and ours alone.
We do not represent anyone but ourselves.
And in other words, we are just a couple of friends behind a mic here to entertain you.
And of course, everything we say is for general purpose only.
- Woohoo!
Okay, so this is like the first time that I've done this alone
and I have to say it because Anthony did this to me
while I was sick.
If anything goes wrong, it's Anthony's fault
We absolutely miss you, Anthony,
and I hope you're enjoying.
Is it here in Aruba?
- Yeah.
- Girl.
- I know, exactly.
- Really, okay, I, okay, that's all good.
- So, I wanna talk about first before I introduce
these two lovely people with you.
So when we decided that we were going to do this,
I'm on the Programs Committee,
and this is coming live from the Finding Fellowship retreat.
It's, we call it a tweaker camp,
but it's closely related to the Crystal Meth anonymous,
and it's an opportunity,
four day kind of weekend getaway retreat.
How many people normally attend?
90.
Like about 90 people, and so we thought,
this would be a great opportunity
to expose these children to the podcast.
And we incorporated it with a workshop
that was done last year.
It was called the first five years.
And so today we're going to talk about the first five years.
I'm going to ask them some questions,
guide the conversation, and then give you
all an opportunity if you want to participate.
We are recording.
So if you're shy, it's OK.
Get over it.
Also, just what I told them is we have a--
We have our rating as explicit, so there are no rules
to the conversation.
The whole idea is just to have a conversation.
The goal is, if you wanna talk about it,
if it brings you to our tagline as there are no outside issues,
you get to talk about it.
So, I have some questions for you.
These are questions we normally start with,
and I wanna give you both an opportunity to ask.
So, Sage, why don't you introduce yourself,
and just quickly, and then I'll give Erin
opportunity to do as well. Sure. Hi. My name is Sage.
Pronouns are she/her hers. I'm originally from Huntington Beach,
California. I've been living in San Francisco for about the past nine years.
I am definitely a crystal meth addict and recovery. My
sobriety date is December 1st of last year. So I have about a little over 10
months. I'm happy to be here. Right on. Go ahead.
- Hi, my name's Aaron D.
My sobriety date is April 7th, 2019.
And I'm from San Francisco.
I've been lived there 30 years
and before that I was from grew up in Michigan.
- You two are amazing, 'cause you,
that was part of my first question.
Now I wanna know what brought you to this recovery.
And I say this recovery,
because if you had recovery experience
before what brought you to recovery,
and you can chime in whoever.
I would say for me the first meeting I ever went to was the T for T meeting at the
Caster Country Club.
It was specifically an AA-focused meeting, but since then I really don't talk about
there.
No kidding.
Since having gone to that meeting and kind of branched out, I've definitely really appreciated
the CMA fellowship specifically,
I feel like there's no place like home
when it comes to tweakers.
Definitely feel like my experience
is a lot more understood and validated
in the CMA fellowship and.
- Yeah, these are my people.
You wanted to know how we got here.
- Yeah, how'd you get here?
- I mean, incomprehensible demoralization got me here,
but then the pull of this community,
how fun this community is,
how fucking crazy this community is has kept me here.
- Yeah, what I will share is the same with me.
I am definitely an alcoholic
and I'm definitely a crystal-mathetic.
And I, early recovery, I think that I was really
uncomfortable with how kind of straight-laced AA seemed,
I now know that they're batch at crazy as we are.
But the truth of it is, I need it,
the kind of frenetic kind of craziness
of the tweaker energy that,
And it's interesting now that I have,
the time that I have is like I go to meetings,
I'm all judging people, how dare you have stopped that.
Sit still, crazy.
Okay, so now this is gonna, we're gonna go deeper.
You okay with crying?
No.
I'm gonna go like six times today.
I'm gonna go over a walker, Jim.
So what is your relationship with a higher power?
Your higher power.
My relationship, it's shifted.
It shifts every, I'd say, year,
as I'm working with the steps, working with spawnsies,
working with my sponsor.
A lot of the work we do with my spawnsies
is having them go interview other folks
about what their higher powers are,
which means they come back to me and share that.
So that can't help more what my understanding is.
What I do know is that my higher power
works through others and through my connections
others and being in the rooms, you are with people that are trying to make their lives better.
And just through that connection, my higher power expresses itself to me. Yeah. Absolutely.
How about you, Sage? I think for me, when I first...
Peace to Mike. When I first came into the meetings.
When I first came into the meetings. Just to see, you know, you all can hear, but we were trying
trying to make sure that it registers when,
what, on, yeah, so, I don't wanna have to say it again.
(laughing)
- I'm gonna just sit here.
- That works for me, yeah.
- When I first came into the meetings,
I really was anti, any kind of religion,
this is obviously not a religious group,
but really was just anti the idea of any kind of higher power.
And since having been in the rooms and seeing
so many other fellows establish a relationship
with a higher power, it doesn't have to be God or any form of
denomination. I've really learned from the other fellows.
And I think that's why it takes a village is because I've been
able to look up to and look within myself as to what a higher
power looks like for me, having seen so many other women come in
the program and then leave shortly after it. And specifically a
lot of other sisters pass away from this disease. I've kind of
created or connected with a higher power that is a woman and that is trans and that I'm
able to, you know, kind of do in their honor, so to say.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Thank you.
I agree with the idea of my power is everything and constantly growing and changing because I'm
constantly growing and changing.
There are no limits to, like I always say, like if you have issues or if you have a problem
that you feel like your higher power can't handle, your higher power is not big enough for you.
And so it's something living kind of like our sex idea, but we're not going to talk about that.
Okay, so we're today, the podcast, so at the CC podcast, CCCC podcast, we're not primarily
like a 12 step, like we try to kind of like not have barriers with that, but it just so happens
that myself and also my co-host is not here and that we really kind of, this is steeped in it.
- Yeah. - That's steeped in it.
Which is fine.
I mean, it's like, I mean, I can only speak about what I know.
We usually try to have other people
bring their opinions and thoughts.
But, how does that usually play out?
- Well, what we do is we talk over them.
(laughing)
No, actually, no, what happens is, depending on what,
okay, so depending on what the theme or the topic is,
we invite people to participate in a conversation.
They bring their experience as recovered people.
- Even from beyond just the program.
- Yeah, so unless it's specifically like to interview
that we don't do all the time,
like right now I'm interviewing or whatever,
but usually it's just a conversation
and so they bring their experience
and then they kind of like when you're working
with a sponsor, like I'm gonna share,
the best way for me to do is not necessarily give you advice
but to share my experience.
And we know most of us who hear are 12s to all of us
here at 12s to have, we have a language.
- That like if I went into some random place
and I was talking to somebody for enough time,
I could tell exactly.
So it saves a lot of time.
Exactly, and you know what's nice about,
I think this format, we wanna normalize,
like as much as I would like to believe
this is the only way to do it,
this is not the only way to do it.
And I think that we all have things in common.
A lot of times it's usually the language is different,
but really we're all going for the same goal I want.
I want peace, I want serenity, I wanna be happy,
I want to expand myself.
So now, after having said all that, blah, blah, blah.
See, this is how it works.
It's like, you say one thing and we go--
- Did we jump in and interrupt you?
- You can do as--
- Okay.
- If you can and interrupt me--
- Keep it up, it's possible.
- I mean, it's like, I'm all--
I'm just keeping it real.
It's like, humility, I'm humble.
What I want to know is, what I want to know is,
like, what was the process like for you finding your sponsor?
Like, because this is something when folks come in,
especially to 12 step, like, it seems like there are
these rules and we have to follow them rigidly and the truth of it is is that there are no rules.
And sometimes it takes a little while for you to figure out.
So for you, what was the process like if it was for the first sponsor or for now?
Right. That's interesting because we just came from the sponsorship panel where we were talking about this.
And like I said down there, and like you mentioned before,
this is my second first five years.
In the first 10 years, I had six different sponsors.
One of the topics came up before was moving on from sponsors because I thought they weren't
giving me what I thought I needed at that point in my recovery.
This time around, I've only had one sponsor.
I had one, but he moved away.
The one I have right now, I'm sticking with.
My criteria was...
Is that because he's in the audience?
Yeah, that's--
(laughing)
And I'll tell you, yeah,
but it's really about later.
(laughing)
He's blackmailing me.
Oh, I thought she could say he was a blackmail,
I'm like, what?
(laughing)
Oh my god.
Yeah.
Blink twice if your safe
(laughing)
This time around my criteria was pretty simple.
Somebody who I could relate to,
somebody who had what I wanted,
But somebody also that was like,
I was gonna run into someone I was gonna go to meetings
with, someone who the relationship was gonna be very effortless
because in the past, scheduling was a problem
or location was a problem.
And just having someone where it was guaranteed
that I was going to see them multiple times a week
and stay connected.
Like that was very important to me
'cause I not only reflected a strength of relationship
but it also helped foster like much more awareness
of what was going on in my life, what was going on in his life.
And again, that higher power thing that I mentioned before
about how my higher power expresses itself
through my connection to others,
that's the practicality of that criteria was really important to me.
- No, I'm sorry, I'm paying attention.
I feel like Anthony, 'cause it's something I want to get back to you on,
but Sage, how about you?
- I would say for me,
You know, when I came in the room, I did not want to work with a man.
I had a huge...
I still to this day have a really uncomfortable relationship with men.
I think a lot of that is because I'm a trans woman and I've had difficult relationships
with straight men.
I've had difficult relationships with gay men.
And I really wanted to work with a trans woman.
And I was going to the T for T meeting for about six months or so.
And I met a trans woman in there who was as crazy and perverted as me, who was a speaker
at this last night's speaker meeting.
So some of you may know who I'm talking about.
She tell you about truffles.
Yes.
(laughing)
But I was just so gravitated to her.
I saw her.
I thought, oh my God, this is a disgusting
and totally inappropriate trans woman.
I have to work with her.
And I approached her in the first couple months
of my recovery and asked if she would sponsor me.
And she actually said no.
Because of mental health reasons,
she only worked with one sponsor at a time.
And I totally felt that
'cause I also have BPD and PTSD
and I'm crazy even without methamy system.
And so I, that was like a boundary and an identity
that I really respected.
And a couple months later,
she came up to me out of the blue
without me having ever talked to her or asked her again
and said, "Hey, my last sponcee and I
"are no longer working together.
"Would you like to work with me?"
And that was one of the biggest miracles of this program.
I know just having been in the other meeting
about sponsorship, you know, some folks,
it takes a couple sponsors to get the right fit.
And I feel really blessed that I imagine
I'll have a really strong relationship
with her for a minute now.
- No, no.
So I wanted to go back and it's like,
I normally don't do this part, I'm over there
and then Anthony's all taking notes.
I love this.
I'm gonna get a note at the next time
if you got a control. So I know that you sponsor folks and so how has how was your relationship
with you figuring out and finding your sponsor? How does it help you being a sponsor? How
does it help you with this process? How does it? Yeah, did you understand? Okay, so let me
see if I can formulate the question in a different way. Do you go ahead? So how does finding
your sponsor? How does it help you become a better sponsor to your sponsors?
- Absolutely, 'cause is it that you are?
You know, we have a little compassion
because I see folks come in and especially if I imagine
where I was at that time, it makes it easier for me
to kind of approach to make, you know what I'm saying?
- Right, right.
I would say the three of the sponcees I have right now
were introduced to me.
And again, kind of that organic being in the community,
being visible, being connected, being of service,
it organically happened that the sponcees that were--
like absolutely perfect for me were presented by somebody
that was like, you should work with Aaron.
- Oh, yeah, yeah, it's pretty amazing.
- That's a gift because I will talk to someone
if they're introduced, but I usually have found that for me.
And I believe in the organic, like I don't put any pressure
if they come to me.
A lot of times I won't raise my hand and if a person
wants to have a conversation,
we can have a conversation and figure from there.
The other part for anyone who's kind of concerned,
I believe wholeheartedly that sponsorship is not marriage.
And I think that whatever reason you decide
to choose a person for sponsorship
or no longer work with this person, that's on you.
I think that I've had five sponsors
and I've worked the steps each of those times.
And I thought that first sponsor I was gonna have,
that sponsor for ever, we're gonna have this amazing
relationship, they were gonna meet my kids
and whatever.
(laughing)
But no, shit happens, they moved away.
People relapse, whatever.
I decide I don't want more.
What I will say is like, I'm so grateful when my sponsors
are able to come to me and say I need something different.
Because if I take that shit personally,
that's not about them, that's about me.
And you leave a lasting impact.
I know many of your ex-sponses and they're constantly referencing stuff that they learn from
you.
Absolutely.
No, and it's great.
It's like, I'm all, it's like, wait a minute, they were listening.
Because half the time, you know, it's all good.
But yeah, you're listening.
So I want to know, I want to know from both of you, what were, and let's start with you
sage.
What were some of the challenges that you face coming in?
I mean, because for some people on the outside looking and it can seem like, "Oh, God,
just amazing.
Everybody, it was so easy.
It was so effortless."
And recovery is not easy, but is like, are there any challenges that maybe stand out
to you?
Yeah, definitely was not easy.
I would say the big one of the initials most difficult things for me, honestly was smoking
weed.
I was going to AA initially because T for T was it.
AA structured meeting and you know,
any, the only...
- The loophole, huh?
They didn't say anything about weed, so I just smoked.
- No, they don't.
The only rule here is that you just have to be,
you have to have a desire to stop drinking.
And I was like, okay, well shit, I don't,
but I can still smoke weed, right?
CMA was a little more cut throat in that sense
and it was really hard for me to go cold turkey off weed.
I think that was probably my first drug of choice,
even before math.
And the way I stopped smoking weed was I was like,
OK, well, I'm just going to get high off crystal
and then get rid of it.
That's one way to do it.
And it did it.
And I'm in a weird way grateful for that relapse
because it got me here.
And I'm like totally cold turkey sober now.
I think the other thing that a lot of folks, men, women,
What not struggle with is just the concept of sex.
I was definitely a sex tweaker.
I could not be smoking if I wasn't like taking a bong
from my mouth and then putting a dick in
and then vice versa.
- Who I love how effortlessly it came out.
Some people are like, "Can I say this?"
- Come on, yeah, dick, dick, dick.
(laughing)
- Yeah.
(laughing)
totally. Yeah, but I mean for me like sex and crystal were just so intertwined and it was
really hard for me whether it was dating or just hooking up to have sex that wasn't
driven by sex. Sex was driven by sex. Sex that was driven by drugs. I got you. Yeah.
Thank you.
Aaron.
There's a couple different ways I could answer that.
The question was, what was difficult about coming to recovery?
Yeah, any challenges that stand out.
Okay, so like the metaphor I would use this time around is like I had spent 10 years working
a pretty hard program.
There were some things that were, you know, could have been more optimal during those 10
years.
I threw that all away and was out there smoking meth daily for two and a half years and then
making the decision to come back and then being at the bottom of that hill again and looking up
that hill that I had trudged up for 10 years, that 10-year-long hill and being like how the fuck am I
am I gonna do this again?
How the fuck am I gonna do this again?
And that's when it was clear to me
I needed to try something completely different.
So I don't know if any of you remember me
from my first 10 years.
I would like sneak into Castro meetings every once in a while,
but I never participated.
- I was pretty self-absorbed, so if you didn't come over
and say hi to me, it's like I'm all, or yeah.
- Yeah, yeah.
- Still that way.
(laughs)
- But I'm pumped.
- I don't need my own sound, but I'm pumped.
(laughs)
- And what I needed to do differently
was basically park my ass in the cast or country club
and have that be my center of gravity.
And that was super, super, super uncomfortable for me.
I'm not a joiner.
I was simultaneously freaked out by all of you.
The laughter was grating on me and I so desperately wanted it too, but it was so foreign to me.
I just couldn't wrap my head around how any of this was attainable for me.
But I sat and held onto that seat in that front room at those noon CMA meetings day after
day after day after day, volunteering to behind the counter so uncomfortable and then just
fear and that otherness with everybody just started to a road away. And that hill, I'm
finally feeling myself crest above that hill that I didn't think I was ever going to be
able to walk back up. And it's a pretty good feeling. And there are a lot of things that
are happening right now that are helping me reflect on how these past five years have
been the hardest years of my life, but have given me what I've been looking for in my
whole life. Yeah. Right on. Now I think the two of you is like what I know about you and what I
continue to learn about you constantly surprises me. I absolutely adore you. I love you. I say that
lightly because it's like I mean I think that it's a gift that we have like all of these potential
relationships you know that can go deeper than just like on the surface. And having said that
What about recovery has surprised you the most?
Do you like that? That was smooth.
That question was surprising.
I think honestly, two things.
One is my relationship with a higher power now.
I mean, I grew up atheist and like I said earlier, just no interest in connecting to anything.
I really, I think having done the step work, I realized now that I thought I was my own
God.
And I thought that I was the only thing that could lift me out of any kind of struggle
in my life.
And yeah, like I pray every morning now and I, you know, go to sleep and I make a moral
inventory.
And I try and do in her name and the other girls that have passed like their name.
And even identifying as like a spiritual person is just wild for me.
Sometimes I have to check myself and I'm like, oh, I feel so weird like a white woman
which or something.
But I really do feel that way.
And I think the other thing that's been really surprising is the different types of people
that I've not only met but become close to in recovery.
I say this a lot, half satirical, but half honest.
It's like, I really just don't want to be around gay men.
And I mean--
- Same.
- I mean, I thought hopefully finished it though,
but I was going to ask you, how has this helped that part?
Because I was, when you were saying it earlier,
I was thinking, are you comfortable now?
(laughs)
Who's that?
- So, will it finish?
like, yes, yes, I'm more comfortable now.
You know, I was really uncomfortable initially
because I navigate just trying to be a woman,
like first and foremost, and being around
any kind of queer community for me felt like,
oh, I was gonna be visibly trans,
it was gonna be obvious.
You know, people would be at a clock me just because
I'm hanging out in the Castro
and I never hang out in the Castro.
And, but I've learned that, you know, queer people, obviously, gay men, but like queer people
in general are just like really amazing at holding space for one another.
They often say too much shit and have too much drama going on, but they're really good
at holding space for one another.
Of course there's times now when I have the occasional dysphoric moment, I'm like, okay,
These queens are being too much, I'm going to go hang out with my girls.
But for the most part, I feel comfortable.
Even outside of just, you know, suicide-identified gay men, being so many different types of
people, being around straight men and cisgender women and other trans people who I don't necessarily
agree with politically or whatnot.
You just kind of have to learn how to navigate being in community with people that you may
not like, but you're always going to love.
Are you always going to love them?
I know, just keep it real.
You know, I, some, I love from far.
That just sound nice, yeah.
You always love them.
Love them, you may not like them.
Love them.
Exactly.
No, I mean, there's been a couple of folks who, whether it was from using days or even
now that have reached out and want to, you know, rekindle a relationship and I'm like,
I'm gonna love you from afar.
- Or meet you at a meeting girl.
- Not even that huh?
- Ooh.
- I mean you can kind of, you can kind of,
you can kind of track what meeting certain people go to
and plan your week accordingly.
(laughing)
- Hallelujah.
Say that again for the people in the back.
(laughing)
- Plan your week accordingly ladies.
If there's some trick in the Monday noon meeting,
don't go to the Monday noon meeting.
(laughing)
For me, sometimes it was the Tuesday 6 p.m.
meeting that I had to avoid.
But yeah, I really believe in loving people from afar
'cause at the end of the day,
we all have the same goal of remaining sober
and stirring up shit and having drama in community
is not gonna keep anyone sober.
- Absolutely, Aaron.
I remember sitting in the nooner on Friday,
and I must have had like a month,
and the speaker said her sponsor had her write down
where she thought she wanted to be at five years.
And then her sponsor promised her that it would be
way beyond what she ever expected for herself.
So I took that exercise and thought, okay, I had write down,
you know, the job and, you know, the hot boyfriend
and the great vacations and the house.
And I thought what she was saying was
is that I would have a better version
of each one of those things at five years.
And I'm sitting here right now in like,
I'm looking at you and there's fucking
Redwood forest behind you with this like,
golden hour sun on it.
We're doing this podcast in front of a bunch of people
that I absolutely love.
This is what my five years looks like.
And this is so different and beyond anything
that I could have possibly comprehended
while I was sitting in that room thinking about
what I was gonna get at five years.
And my heart has never felt more full in my life.
So everything that I was scared about,
and I didn't say that glibly about being afraid of gay men.
That was probably one of my number one fears
that I knew I had to get over as I was looking up that hill
and saying what am I gonna do different this time?
What obstacles do I need to really take on
to make this recovery different and make sure this recovery sticks.
And the belongingness of this community has been the sole medication that I've needed,
that I've always looked for my entire life.
And again, I had to let go of what I thought I needed.
I don't know what I need.
I am less convinced I know what I need now than I ever had in my life and I'm somehow
the most happiest. Yeah. One of our fellows, Billy Bee, she's always said, "Get over your
cheap self." And I think that that's what it comes down to because all the baggage that
I had before I found Crystal meth and Alcohol and found it by the use and all the wreckage
that I created coming in, all of the doubts and insecurity and what have you and getting
to a place where like I feel like it's taken a really long time and I'm still on that journey.
I'm still on that journey, but it's like, I love it.
She said, "The gay men, the cis women, the people in this program hold space."
And that's why we talk about this being a brave space.
I know we all want a safe space, but the reality of a safe space is that I can't control
every aspect of it, but a brave space means that I have the courage, even through the fear,
to talk about things, to put them out.
And this is, for me, this has been the absolute gift of this podcast because it's really
affected how I have shown up as a sober man.
I'm going to share an experience.
I think I was 18 months sober and there was a gentleman visiting the meeting in Castro
at the country club and he got up to get his five-year chip and when he got his five-year
chip he gave it to me and he said, "When you get five years you give this to someone else."
And so I'm all thinking, "Five years, that's a lot of time."
But when I got my five years, I gave it to my friend Garland.
And he got five years and gave it to another friend.
And I'm like, I don't know if the tip's still going, but it's the promise.
I mean, it requires work, but it's something that we can do.
Something that we don't talk about a lot is, you don't have to pick up and use again
no matter what.
Even if you want to, you don't have to.
That is the gift of this.
There was a time where I didn't believe that recovery was possible, the way that I had
used drugs.
Let's talk about fellowship.
Let's talk about fellowshiping.
What does it mean to you?
I'm appropriate.
I know.
I'm finding it.
I know, exactly.
Let's talk about fellowship.
What does it mean to you?
And then after that, it was like, if there's anyone else who has any comment or anything that
they want to add to the conversation.
But all means, we have this over there because he doesn't really need to talk in it.
He's just the producer and he looks at this there and looks pretty.
Hi.
Go ahead.
- Thank you.
- I mean, I'll add 'cause I really like the point
about brave space also.
I think calling it a brave space really sets us up
more for success when thinking about just going into society,
whether it's with other sober people,
with the normies, with people outside your identity group.
'Cause I mean, there's definitely meetings still to this day
that people say some wild ass shit.
And sometimes it's racially insensitive.
sometimes it's sexist, sometimes it's homophobic.
And obviously I think a lot of people
wanna like pull off their hoop rings and throw punches,
but like we have to navigate that in a sober way.
On the topic of fellowship,
I, I mean I could talk about the girls all day every day
because for me so much of my experience in this world
surrounded by sisterhood.
Definitely the fellowship, something that another member
shared in another meeting is like having sponsorship,
family meetings.
And I definitely have like my group chats with my sober girls
and you know, just checking, we all have each other's
locations.
So even if they are sucking dick on a Friday,
like I can go, okay, you're in the T.L.
I know where you're at.
- You can tell where they're stuck in dick, I love it.
- Well, you know, I mean, I know that you live
in a Barca Dero.
So if you're not there at 10 p.m. on Friday, what are you doing?
For me, that sisterhood and that bond overall is really, really critical.
And this program is really something for a long time.
I mean, there's friends of mine that are now in prison.
There's friends of mine that are now no longer in San Francisco.
And some way, I still have contact with them and I can still check in on them.
And it's really just the relationship and bond of wanting to remain sober for another
day.
And that's really beautiful and something you don't find in a lot of other social circles.
As sage was talking, I was kind of just thinking like, how did I get to the point where I became
so comfortable with fellowship?
And I remember I grew up Catholic and every Sunday, what we had this thing called the
fellowship hall at church where we would all go after mass and like have to hang out
and have donuts and talk to people and me and my sister wanted to kill ourselves.
So like the word fellowship, like always just like made my like the hair on the back of my
next standup.
But I can't separate fellowship from the idea of service.
And that was sort of my entree into being comfortable with folks like having a job to do
and showing up and meeting people through that service.
Again, the word organic is what comes to mind.
Just like now, I feel so comfortable
sort of hanging out with everybody in a way
that I never had before, but service was like,
that was the front door for me to get that comfort.
- You know, you saying that brings up for me,
earlier recovery for me, I really believe
that people didn't want me around.
You know, I was in my head.
And so service, especially like I would take greeting
commitments because that forced you to have to say hi
to me.
I'm part of the process, so whatever.
It's the best commitment.
Service, no, it was great.
But service was great because you also
start to meet like-minded individuals.
You get to see who's working.
You get to bitch about the same people.
Exactly.
And find commonality.
If anybody wants to participate in a conversation,
do not feel confined to what we're talking about now.
Any of the questions that I put,
is there something about the first five years
that you've experienced that you might wanna share?
And don't feel pressure because it's like,
we are, I'm really enjoying the conversation.
I never know how this is gonna unfold,
but these two lovelies have been so gracious
to kind of share, to get vulnerable.
I mean, it's not an easy thing.
I mean, talking about Dick on a podcast.
- We've gotta earn that explicit rating.
- Absolutely, or you can know,
I just asked,
If Anthony is usually not ready for me because that's what I'm here for.
I mean I don't think it's that vulnerable. I think a lot of us have
psyched dick with or without crystal. Yeah but to tell, but to talk about it
because there are still folks that don't want to talk. This is exactly how the
podcast goes all the time. We start talking about God and then it ends up being
about dick. Can I add to the, I think one of the most important things that my
that a sponsor has told me is that you cannot replace
crystal with dick for being your higher power.
- Say that again, that.
(laughing)
- Ultimately she said dick cannot be your higher power.
- Absolutely, well, you know exactly.
I mean, we all have, yeah.
I mean, I don't have that problem,
but I just like, I understand that some people struggle.
- Wow.
- Yeah, I understand that some people struggle,
and it's okay, it's completely fine.
- You mean she got a Coda?
- No, no, no, no.
That's not my problem.
I have a higher power that I love.
You know, I'm sitting in this stool
and I just have to say,
like back at our regular studios at the Country Club,
we have to stack a couple chairs
and we behind them.
This, we're taking these with us.
(laughing)
I, you know what, it's not old behavior
if you're still doing it.
(laughing)
That's what I'm saying.
These are mine.
- Oh, what?
- So I thought, let's see,
Do I have another question?
Oh, it's actually, I wanna ask you about boundaries
because when I came in, I struggled desperately with them.
Like not just setting boundaries,
but living them myself.
Like, and it was unheard of for you to set boundaries.
What?
Like, when you said your sponsor had set that boundary,
like, was there any issue like where you like?
Because I probably would have been like,
oh, you don't wanna sponsor me, fuck to you, I'm leaving.
You know, and there have been people
'cause we don't need excuses to not do this.
But you give me one and see,
these bitches are not here for me.
Go ahead.
Was it that easy?
Was it that the boundaries?
Like, no, it wasn't easy.
I mean, and I'm definitely not somebody
who ever says no, or at least initially,
when I start anything, I'm a little bit better at it now.
But I was just, give me whatever things you need me to do,
give me any like tasks that I can support you with
and I got you.
I'm both in the fellowship and also just like in work.
I've learned the power of saying no.
But I know it's like, yeah,
why didn't she said no, I only do one a year.
I'm like, stupid bitch.
- Was that uncomfortable like this,
you know, this idea of the power of saying no?
'Cause it would seem like it's super easy to say no.
But is that ever uncomfortable for you?
Said it's--
No, no.
I mean, when you asked the question,
my first response was--
Yeah, that's not the time.
--was my big problem was I exuded this era
to get the fuck away from me.
So I didn't have problems setting boundaries
because nobody tried to step across them.
In my therapist, like, sickle at counter dependence,
where I'm just, I think a lot of us have had points
in our lives where we're pushing folks away
'cause we don't wanna be abandoned.
So this time around, it has really been around.
How do I open up, you know, access to me in a way
that doesn't immediately want me to shut that door again?
- Okay.
I think maybe for me what I'm getting at,
'cause there was no problem telling people
what I don't want, but I'll give an example.
Okay, so the country club, if you've ever been
to the country club, okay,
I'm gonna tell this story and then we'll wrap up.
If you've ever been to the country club,
the way it was before it was remodeled,
it was very kind of like home,
like there were couches and people chilled or whatever,
and we would spend all our days there,
and we'd be talking at top levels about whatever.
And then someone would come in
who we maybe didn't deal with and join in.
And I'm like, oh, no, you can't do that.
And for me, I had to learn with character defects,
like gossiping, things of that nature or whatever,
to get to a place where I'm not--
it's not that I was going to stop it.
I wasn't going to stop it, but I have to be mindful
who I'm doing it around.
And it was like-- and for me, the lesson was--
It wasn't about setting boundaries but living them myself.
Like I tell you through my actions and how I show up how I want to be treated.
And if I'm acting in a certain way, it's kind of like, and I'll say this because I can
say this as a black man, using the N word.
I can't get upset with other people using the N word if I'm using it all the time.
Not everybody agrees with that, but this is just my opinion.
I don't get me wrong.
When I need to accident, accident something, I will definitely use it because that's my
not prerogative.
But it's just that I can't expect people to act a certain way around me if I'm acting
that way.
If I'm just out of my mind, then that's how people are going to receive me and they may
respond in kind.
So yeah.
That's interesting.
That is an interesting comment because I've definitely noticed in this community, I am
someone who I'm like, "Oh, you just have an issue with me because I'm a trainee."
And then you hear all the gay boys saying the word "trainy."
And I'm like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no."
But that's an interesting point around like you kind of have to model the behavior you
want to receive in return.
Oh, absolutely.
Because some people don't, you know, they don't care, they don't have to care.
That's privilege.
They don't have to care.
And it's not that I feel like I need to educate you because that's what Google is for.
But again, I need to set--
that's about setting a clear boundary.
And that clear boundary is not--
maybe not just saying the words, but it's living.
It's acting and being a certain way.
I want to thank you two for being a part of this.
You were amazing.
Thank you.
I love you.
I love you.
Thank you all for joining us.
This is special.
It's like, I can't wait for Anthony to listen
and see how well I did.
[LAUGHTER]
So let's, oh, I have a script.
We're going to land the plane.
This is what landing the plane looks like.
The Castro Country Club is a safe and sober community
center for all people and a refuge for the LGBTQ
recovery community.
We provide programs and services that help change
their lives by supporting personal growth.
Our vision is to reduce the suffering of addiction
by connecting people to community opportunity and support.
You can find more information, including all the ways
contact us at www.castrocountryclub.org/podcast.
I keep messed that up.
And Tudan, every Wednesday at 8 p.m.
ish, we go live on our
"Castro Country Club" Facebook and YouTube channels.
And look for at the CCC wherever you listen to podcasts.
I wanna thank Jordan for being an amazing producer,
Steven, and also, oh my gosh.
Jason, no, I was calling him Justin earlier.
And also Brandon, our assistant manager.
I'm old, okay.
Thank you.
And yeah, I was waiting for you to do the noise
and shut me up.
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
[Applause]
[BLANK_AUDIO]