Controversial Topics and Recovery with expert in DEI David Lopez

Controversial topics and Recovery with expert DEI with David Lopez

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Transcript

Welcome! You are at the CCC!
Where there are no outside issues.
Hold on, can you lower the music?
Jesus Christ!
I'm like, 'cause I don't even know it with like,
am I talking to people, am I talking to myself?
Okay, thank you.
Where there are no outside issues.
My name is Anthony Mnatican and I'm an alcoholic.
Another bozo on on the bus and I care about you.
And I'm Louilou, my pronouns are him, and I'm in
Recovery for Crystal meth and alcohol.
And I am always in search of balance.
And each week we strive to foster a brave space where we can engage in conversations centered around topics of recovery.
And our intention is to hold and inspire better spaces for more people in recovery by tackling issues sometimes used to separate us.
Yes, but before we do that, please like, share, comment, and rate this episode.
Breathe this episode
And now the disclaimer the thoughts and opinions expressed on at the CCCR as alone
We do not represent anyone but ourselves in other words
We're just a couple of friends behind a mic here to entertain you and of course everything we say is for general information purposes only
Absolutely and all that jabber you did before was great because it ended right perfectly because normally we have
We have the instrumental so we can collect it. Yeah Jordan. You're doing great. You're doing great Jordan
So Jordan's bought behind the camera today and he's producing today's show.
Lewis, how are you?
I am good.
This has been an interesting week because it's like I've been...
I go through this.
It might be the tail end of Virgo, whatever, but I've been kind of like feeling stuff and
moody and whatever.
And so, you know, I have this process where, you know, if I'm feeling it, I talk about
it and I address it and I've just been actively trying not to...
I haven't been doing that thing where I call my isolation solid.
- Yeah, you mean like where you like cut everyone out?
- Yeah, I will be, 'cause I remember the feelings I had.
I remember going through depression and what have you
and not wanting to go back.
So I'm taking all the necessary steps.
So I'm good, I'm good today.
How are you?
- Oh, today has been a fucking day.
I like, so you know how I don't have a car,
I'm using a car subscription service.
- What does that mean?
- So basically, I'm sorry, Jordan,
you have something to say?
You have something to say?
Jordan, I don't know if you guys know this,
but Jordan's laughing.
- I'll keep going.
- All right, let me in on the joke.
So I'd use this car subscription service.
The long and the short of it is that I have to reserve a car
before I use it, right?
And I pay a monthly subscription fee.
So today I walk up to the parking lot,
I get to the car,
I never fucking reserved the car.
So I'm like, oh my God, well, this is okay
'cause I always give myself 30 extra minutes
and so I'm patting myself on the back.
So finally, I like contact the guy.
He's like, well, there's another car, but it's over here.
So I go to the other car, I had to get a new bar.
I've paid $25 fucking dollars for a new bar.
I go to get this other car, then the numbers
on the car don't match.
So now I'm like, oh my God, how am I gonna get,
so then I get in this car, finally I get to work.
Then I had like, I had an intake
and then I had to do all this stuff
and then had to go to another hospital,
I'd do all that stuff,
then had to come back to my hospital
to wrap up a note,
and then I have to go from there to come over here,
and then there was traffic.
I was just so much.
I'm like, and then I almost didn't show up to here on time.
I like literally for people listening,
I got here like five minutes ago.
I am so--
- I guess, you know what?
Everything I've been going through this last week
is nothing.
(laughing)
- It's just been a lot.
But you know, we have a guest here today.
- Do.
- He's an old friend of mine name,
David, David, how are you doing?
- Hello, hello, hello, I'm doing very well.
- Yeah.
- Thank you for having me, excited to be here.
- Yeah, I'm excited to have you here.
So we have David for folks listening,
you know that this month has been
the month of controversial topics.
We've talked about politics, we've talked about,
what else have we talked about?
Race, mainly race in politics.
I think we kind of jumbled it all together
I just, whatever popped out.
Yeah, so I want to give a quick introduction of David.
So David is a certified diversity, equity
and inclusion program manager.
He's worked across-- he has a decade of experience
in shaping implementing DEI strategies
across corporate settings.
A core focus of his work has been in line in organizations,
talent acquisition, and management strategies
with its overall business objectives with the DEI lens.
I love it.
He's nodding.
It's like a--
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You're getting it right.
I know it's like I'm reading his LinkedIn.
He's especially when you get to these adjectives.
When you get to these adjectives.
He is adept at understanding the company's goals,
identifying these skills and capabilities
and yet to achieve these goals,
analyzing, operationalizing data design,
built-in scale, and a bait of strategies
and programs to attract, retain, and develop the right town.
In other words, what are we going to say, David?
Oh, that's it.
That you ain't wrong.
You ain't wrong.
You ain't wrong.
So I invited David.
One, because he's an old friend of mine
and I knew that he was in DEI work,
but one of the things that I really appreciated
about David when we met in undergrad
was that race and identity politics
and intersectionalities were all things
that were very important to him.
And so, you know, he's then since taken that
and he's made a profession of it.
- Most definitely, yeah.
I mean, I remember back in college,
you know, after you had a conversation where he's like,
girl, why do you like being conquered all the time?
It was just my dating preferences.
I was like, I'm new for the good credit.
- Why are you talking, okay.
- But no.
(laughing)
- This is perfect.
- But we knew that we were gonna get along well.
- Yeah, yeah.
- It's blended there, but yes.
And then, you know, applying just to,
just just to come to this group from there
and now making some coin off it well, you know.
- Yeah, you wanna be the one.
- Whatever you're doing, you're doing what you gotta do.
- You're doing what you gotta do.
- Exactly.
- So David, let's start off with defining what DEI is.
So what is DEI?
So we endeavor to get equity and inclusion,
but as someone with your level of experience and expertise,
what does it mean?
- Yeah, so diversity and inclusion.
So this is really, it's a cultural practice in business.
And so what this does here is,
diversity is embracing, acknowledging all the differences
that make us all unique.
So looking at race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation,
religion, et cetera.
Equity is more about looking at the business practices,
making sure that everyone in terms of,
making sure everyone has what they need to succeed and thrive within that organization.
And so identifying those barriers that exist and then systematically, strategically removing
them so everyone has a fair chance.
And then inclusion is making sure people feel like they are respected, like they belong
and they're welcome to be there and they can thrive there.
So it's more action oriented.
That's really cool.
Thank you for that definition.
Because you've worked in San Francisco, right?
What was that?
You worked in San Francisco.
Oh yeah, yeah.
The follow up to that.
one second. So for folks who are watching, you're probably listening. I'm waving my hand
all over the place. And in front of David, because there's a fucking bug in this room,
and I'm trying to keep it away from David. Thank you so much.
You know, this is probably the only thing I'm going to say this whole hour. But this is exciting.
I know, no, I'm simply, no, no, I'm simply, I am, I'll the edge of my seat. This is like,
I'm really enjoying this conversation so far. I really appreciate this. Thank you, David.
I mean Lewis.
>> I think so.
>> So, what?
>> San Francisco, yes.
>> San Francisco, right.
And the reason why I bring that up, and we talked about this briefly yesterday, is because
it's tech heavy.
>> Yes.
>> Right, so I'm wondering what has been the reception of tech with respect to your experience.
Have they been very receptive to DEI stuff?
You also mentioned something really interesting, two-part question.
You also mentioned something really interesting.
>> Okay.
>> Well, one of the interesting things that you mentioned, yes, and don't interrupt me.
(laughing)
- What you mentioned was that people are cutting budgets
and so DEI programs are, I guess, essentially being cut out.
- Yeah, so for sure.
Let me kind of approach it from the lens of
where I started from before I got into DEI,
I worked like explicitly within tech.
So I got my master's clinical psychology,
so I was doing therapy work for just
in franchise communities, really trying to help them find
there's not the cells, so they can thrive
in the lives that they lived.
Now, now it's just going to be in this tech hub,
definitely some opportunity to you apply my skills to start changing the system from
inside out, while making somebody because mental health work as important as it also
is really for me with the struggle to really make ends meet, paycheck to paycheck, everything
else.
And so the tech companies were willing to hire folks within the DEI realm.
I got certified, got a job in there and been there ever since.
Now that being said, we're kind of, it's time for us to go to a special place where a lot
of radicalism, a lot of, you know, just be who have,
in a custom here?
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- We're ready.
- E-For-Explicit.
- Oh, yeah.
- You know, just being like whoever the fuck you wanna be,
it can't be embraced in some way, shape, reform,
or what have you, right?
And so initially, you know, D.I. was,
and most often are not, it is still being embraced,
it's still being acknowledged, something that is there,
however, without being said.
There is definitely is a trend right now that, you know,
as within the next couple of years for sure,
We're just being cut.
So in terms of for San Francisco,
yeah, I mean, I'm finding roles are actually
are harder to come by.
I am someone right now actually who is currently
on an unemployed and looking for work
and then the struggle is real out.
- Can I ask a question?
- Yeah, please do.
- Can we kind of talk about this a little beforehand?
Does the narrative or the conversation at the national level
have anything to do with maybe why
some of these programs are being cut?
- Oh yeah, no, great question.
No, for sure.
I mean, just thinking about today,
in today's life right now, every day right,
we have like Kamala Harris being called a DEI hire.
We have, there's a Supreme Court actions
around affirmative action happening.
So all this definitely is impacting business practices
where folks, some business leaders
are withdrawing budgets, they're scared
to take a stance on certain topics, right?
And so all of that is definitely playing a part in it,
but it's really, all the companies
are really fighting through it and really want to embed it in their DNA.
They're the ones that are going to have that competitive advantage.
They're the ones that are really going to stand out here.
And so, yeah, definitely, yeah, political things, social things are all impacting this work,
for sure.
I really appreciate it what you said about it is the companies that embrace diversity that
do the best, right?
And that's well documented.
Yeah.
Companies that embrace diversity.
like the way you outlined this earlier by mentioning like,
you're talking about gender and sexual orientation
and so many different things.
You generally, we think about race
and we forget about social economics status.
We forget about gender and abilities, right?
Like people who are disabled.
And I knew I had a good point to get to.
- I heard some words.
- I was getting somewhere.
- Somebody in the bank.
- And then I wanted to be somewhere.
- When they were debating someone who had an issue
with the idea of DI,
challenged him and said the Electoral College is D.I. at its best.
[LAUGHTER]
See.
[LAUGHTER]
OK, I remember what I was going to say.
So it's well documented that companies that embrace
all types of diversity tend to be--
they are more creative, they make more money,
they have stronger work forces, they
have many different perspectives that
contribute to decision-making.
And they, in turn, bottom line is they make the most revenue.
They tend to have the most kind of like innovative programs, et cetera.
>> 100%.
Yeah, you know, if you're looking for like brand loyalty, right?
Are you gonna go with the company, company A that has now pulled out of, you know,
they pulled resources from their groups where they're like, you know, no longer,
you don't, you don't, you don't see anyone who looks like you there.
They're not really engaged in the, in the, the communities in which they actually try to do business with.
So it's really disconnected, right?
It's really, they don't understand what's happening,
how they can better serve the community.
You can, how can a company show up for the communities
that you belong to and you identify with
and want to do business with?
And outside of just throwing your product at them,
which some companies do try to do,
another thing they can do is really just show up
for them authentically.
How are you volunteering?
How are you giving back?
And I think that is what kind of resonates right now
with a lot of folks is, what are you gonna do for me
besides just trying to see me as a number
or like see me as a consumer just for your part,
when I'm without really understanding
are the needs of the people and the needs of how I'm out
of how I'm like, what do you want to know?
- Seeing him as a wet hoe.
(laughing)
- What?
What are you talking about?
How does that increase any of the bottom line?
(laughing)
- Okay, so I'm gonna ask a real question.
- Yeah.
- So, okay, so knowing that CC is about recovery, right?
and this more recovery focus.
For somebody who is looking to look for a job,
right, how beneficial or hindrance is it to say
I'm in recovery when applying for a job
or speaking openly about work, things like that to say.
- Oh, interesting.
- I think, I think, well, that is a great question.
I think in terms of your own,
like the individual personal safety with that disclosure,
is really understanding the culture of the company.
So I would probably do, I would suggest
maybe do some research first, do some homework
into how the company, what are their values,
what's their mission, how are they,
what programs are they currently have,
maybe reach out to someone who works there
just to have an informational conversation
to kind of just see do they feel supported
and what needs that they have,
because it is a vulnerable situation
to put yourself out there and then to not get the job,
because of that, that is a discriminatory practice as well,
'cause that is not a hint on how you're gonna
perform in the job in of itself, right?
And so one thing just about approach with caution,
to do some research behind that.
And then you can even ask them as well,
'cause you're also interviewing the company too, right?
And so you wanna ask them,
what programs do you provide for folks
when what are some of the benefits
and things you have available to folks
who might be going through something
a stressful time in their life
that might need mental health work?
And so yeah, so just really diggin'
drilled in on that.
And then if you feel safe to disclose that,
then you can say, "Oh, because of this reason."
I probably approach it for that lens.
- Yeah, I love that.
So not what I was gonna say,
- Well, what's interesting about this is,
'cause Jordan's question reminds me of conversations
that we've had about disclosure before.
And one of the places we've landed with that is,
like, you disclose whether it's your HIV status,
whether it's your ability or illness or whatever it is
that you disclose when you stand to benefit
from the disclosure, 'cause you oh no one, anything.
So, and the other thing I was thinking about though
is that when this, I want, I imagine,
that if someone were to disc, I don't know.
Jordan, I just don't know that it's like a smart idea
to like in an interview be like,
and by the way, I'm an alcoholic.
I don't know.
- I don't know.
- Without giving it context.
- Yeah, you know, I'm actually--
- Yeah, I really want to get that.
- Right.
- And my active addiction, I think that key
to the active addiction, I interviewed with this one company
and I was super excited.
At first I didn't want it, but I showed up.
And somehow I ended up talking about my mental stuff.
(laughs)
It was like, if I could look back now and I realized,
Oh yeah, I'm not getting this job.
I mean, the interview's not the therapy session.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly, yeah, yeah.
You're like, I have a nervous tick.
You're like, we haven't started the interview.
I think it goes into this idea of diversity, right,
to say that I have experience in this whole other realm,
this whole other world that most other people
don't as known as 12-step.
I've lived an experience and I live in a different way
of life than I had before.
So I think that to me, it could be an asset to say,
"Hey, I'm part of this 12-step community."
And I am abide by these principles, whatever they may be.
And I think that could be, in my ideal mind,
right, a diversity higher in and of itself.
- I feel like there's a tread lightly on that
because you don't want to become the person.
- Well, right, also too.
I mean, you've got to think of it like this.
Like a lot of hiring managers or HR folks, right?
They want to protect the company.
The company is, they want to make sure
they're not getting any hot water with anything.
They don't want to, you see a lot of folks who are who, when things, someone had done something,
raises someone, does something like wild actin' out whatever, they will, especially now,
right, in the way that social political climate is, like the people are getting fired,
they're getting canceled, whatever it may be, right?
So I would definitely suggest that he's on the side of caution, with the disclosures of
that nature.
However, again, I guess that you can ask about and roundabout ways first, and then once
you get that foot in the door, once you're there, then you start to explore and see what
you know, what options exist there, just because they,
you know, it can, it just can send off some flags,
which is also like, not necessarily like,
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that.
- Just because it's a book satisfied with it.
- That's his name's Gordon.
- I know, so it's not just,
but part of, you know what I love that you're bringing up
here is that you're talking about neurodiversity, right?
Like, and also like, a person's ability
is a protected class, right?
Like if we're talking about the legalities of it.
- Well, that's right.
But if you're, but that's the thing is that it's easier to shut the door on someone at the onset
Yeah, then it is further in right like if you're already employed and you disclose and you like lose your job
Then that's a that's a title 9 I think in the in the research that you do leading up to yeah
I feel like you can get you can get a feel of
Where the company might be based on what they prioritize yeah, yeah, well can I tell you something and David
that I'm curious about what your opinion is on this.
So to your question, Jordan, what is your problem?
- Nothing.
(laughing)
- You were late.
(laughing)
- Thank you.
- I was late, I was coming all the way from Antioch
- And he was, I love.
(laughing)
- So one of the things, so right now I'm applying
for postdocs and I work in addiction medicine and LGBT.
And I have a history.
I've historically worked with LGBT populations.
So I've been thinking a lot about including that,
like, I'm a man of color and I don't know why he said it that way,
but I'm a man of color and I'm in recovery and, you know,
and I'm gay.
- The blacks.
- Yeah, I'm basically like, I'm gay, I'm brown, I'm drunk, you know?
- Yeah.
- And there's a part of me that's like, oh, that's,
you know, it's empowering, I think it is relevant to the postdoc.
But there's another part of me that's based on the conversation we just had, which is like,
"Oh, is that a smart idea?"
I mean, I was like, "Not on your phone."
I'm not initially in that space.
I have experience having this.
I mean, I can't necessarily speak to what information would be most pertinent to you.
I hope you get through and whatnot.
For me, it always goes back to, you mentioned in the project of classes.
If we're talking about all those things that you can't say, because they can't really
did it to not you necessarily for that, right?
So in my mind, it's like, don't give them a reason.
You know, and so if you're what you're writing to
or what you're trying to talk about is things you've overcome,
then that sounds appropriate.
- Right, right, right, yeah.
- It's like how that has informed who you are
and how you operate.
Then maybe, yeah, definitely what I wanna talk about that.
But like, you know, for me, I've just come from
like a corporate lens of things.
Like that's something you probably wouldn't want to disclose
again, not the onset.
- Yeah.
- Because it's one thing to talk about.
You mentioned neurodiversity moment ago.
You know, we're talking about, you know,
it's like, tell me about yourself.
for some kind of question like that comes through.
I'm an alcoholic
- And you wanna, and you mentioned this story
of a neurodiverse situation,
you know, which is,
- Yeah, yeah.
- A neurodiver.
- Experience that you've had and whatnot.
That's okay to say in that sense
because they can't necessarily,
you go because if they did,
and there's a backlash around that
where they'd let me go because I am
of this community here,
that puts them in hot water, right?
But saying, 12-step alcoholic,
you know, that's more,
that's not necessarily a projected class,
so that's a different,
there's a difference that risk to be taken with that.
- It would seem as though before you're in,
they don't really have any kind of loyalty
and because there's no guarantee
with 12 step or, any kind of recovery.
And like you said, it's like their responsibility
is to kind of protect the company.
- Yeah.
- But could you argue?
So there is some background and social worker.
And so there's a lot of research around
that addiction is now a disease, right?
So, wouldn't that fall under a protected class?
Now, that's it.
- It's always been not a disease.
- If it's also not a disease, it's always been kind of class
about it as a disease, but even if they haven't,
folks haven't been like looking at it that way,
isn't that correct?
- Well, also, I think with, as a disease,
but it's not a protected class in that sense,
I think because like when you're thinking of like,
- I like to have to class those are like,
what do you call it?
Unchangeable characteristics of oneself, right?
That you are female, you are male, you are.
- Just lean on the homosexual, you are.
- Yeah, yeah, it's sexual orientation.
All those types of things, I mean,
I just like autism, wouldn't fall under that.
- No, autism does, as a neurodiversity.
Like autism does fall, it's a particular class for sure.
- So I'm looking over your notes here.
Can you tell us a little bit about this,
where you talk about impact of DEI backlash?
- Oh, I mean, yeah, just so--
- You don't have to read them, just tell us.
- Yeah, yeah, so like, as--
- This is an audible.
(laughing)
- No, so like just when we talked about earlier,
some of the how pulling funds and stuff like that
were happening, a lot of that really has,
some from like, you know, as the pushback from,
you know, the far right, or just, you know, billionaires,
people with money have influence,
and they're putting things out, they're saying like,
"DIs, they said, "DIs is wrong,
"and illegal in of itself," you know?
So we have billionaires, like Elon Musk,
and folks, current president of Canada, Donald Trump,
like you're saying that these things are actually wrong
for business and bad for business.
And so that's, you know, it has sway.
It has those things like that.
It creates a narrative that,
or it fuels a narrative that already,
that does already kind of exist
that underpins the work itself,
you know, in the US, American culture here.
And so companies then, you know,
and, not say that was the cause that made companies
want to pull back, but it gave,
I think it gave allowance too, right?
- Yeah, exactly.
- Yeah, we affirm that you don't necessarily need to do that.
And so that's kind of what I feel like.
- Thank you.
Yeah, did you have a thing, Lewis?
- No, no, no, I'm just nodding a green.
- Oh, okay.
- Well, 'cause I had a follow-up thing.
- Follow-up.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, I just wanted to make sure
I wasn't talking over you.
- No, no.
- So, that would start you.
(laughing)
- He talks over me and I just said,
"Hey, shut up, black man."
(laughing)
And I'm all, "Wah, wah, wah."
(laughing)
- I have never heard of record of...
- Can you play that tape, Ellen?
- Okay.
- Oh, all right.
- She got receipts.
- She got her receipts.
- No, she doesn't have receipts.
- I know, let's roll that, but beautiful bean footage.
- What?
- Oh, I'm just real quick on that note there.
So like, as a lot of companies,
and within DIA work itself too,
a lot of it, when they're as a pulling, funding,
and resources towards it,
a lot of it also becomes very face value
and self-serving, where a lot of it
and it's a great episodic programming.
Oh, let's put on this.
- Let's have a workshop.
- Yeah, necessarily.
The several works, a company's wanted these
one-off situations where the work is not
just tight as something larger for the company.
That's with the face value.
That's a disturbing moment that happened.
- I saw the DI versus the affirmative action there.
And it sounds like what kind of happened
with affirmative action where folks were afraid
of being penalized and so they were--
- Right, right, yeah, so like forming, like,
- Yeah, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this.
And this way when you come and check us,
you say, "Yeah, they want to check the box and whatnot."
And so it was like, "Oh, we need to put out a statement
for this social thing that happened here."
And we need to say this thing,
but there's actually no real systemic change
happening within the organization itself.
Like there were no policies that were made.
There were no benefits that were created.
So it's become, it falls on deaf ears
from that leadership, right?
- Just a box, it's checked.
- Exactly.
- And then, and I'm sorry.
And then because they're not doing the hard work
to kind of build it into, then they can later on say.
And see, this is why this is not effective
because we're doing it.
- Well, right.
- Yeah, and it's very like vanity,
like vein metrics that they'll say,
oh, we wanted to increase, you know,
diversity hires like this,
and they kind of, they put it out there,
but they don't really say exactly
what that looks like, break it down for us,
and like, how are you actually,
how that representational representation
look like as you scale up the ladder, you know, we all, I think it's really common
knowledge right now to know that as the higher you go up, the less diverse it gets.
And so what programs do you have?
We'll pin her again.
Yeah, well you know what?
Go ahead.
And then also it's part of the conversation is about like, well who's responsible for
doing the work?
Yeah.
Right.
And so a lot of that falls on the folks who already marginalized and represented and who
are struggling kind of like, you know, you know, develop them, develop and grow within
their own careers.
And by that I mean, you know, it's one such program that exists within a lot of tech
companies right now are they will launch employee resource groups.
Great, they're awesome.
I love them, I've launched them, you know, and whatnot.
Employee resource groups are volunteer led groups within a company that
center around a certain identity and that loves them to have community,
makes the company feel smaller, you know, a little bit, allows them to
bring things to awareness.
And that's where you see a lot of these like, oh, there's an event,
a lunch and learn.
There's this workshop that this group wants to do.
There's this, there's a heritage month situation.
Yeah.
So those programs are happening.
And those are fun.
And I'm just saying, don't, don't,
discrediting them, you learn a lot about it.
But if there's no change in action oriented,
call it action from there that the leadership
is willing to take on and be responsible and accountable to,
then that's volunteer work.
And they do that on top of their day jobs.
And so in my experience, that's a DI professional
working with these, with working with these,
my colleagues, you know, at the company,
they're burnt out, we see high rates of attrition,
we see the lack of development that's there,
and then if it's impacting their day to day
and they get let go, then what was that all for?
So a lot of the work that I tried to do
is really change the narrative
and change the relationship with the organization.
And so really activating executives to support the group,
so having them being exactly the sponsor to the group,
making sure that they have a voice at the table.
So they're championing the group's work,
they're missioned during the leadership meetings
with the board to make sure there's funneling resources to them.
They're having budget for stuff.
That they're being recognized for the impact that they're having,
making sure that we're connecting the dots a little bit better.
So with recruiting teams, a lot of the work will center around
connecting recruiters with the ERG group.
So we can tap into those communities.
But you also don't want just like cherry pick.
And that's also very like tokenizing of that group itself.
And so I approach it with three pillars with community work.
So it's one, we do want to support the ERG group
to help us find talent now.
- What's ERG?
- Employee resource group.
- Okay.
- And so for talent now, 'cause we have roles to fill,
if we want increased diversity,
ERGs are a great internal resource,
that doesn't cost you any money to really tap into
and necessarily on that front.
But you want to do it authentically.
So do authentically then,
how else can we get back to the community?
And one way is how can we prepare for talent
for the future?
And so what are some of the younger STEM programs
that exist out there for a particular demographic
group that the company can support and what are ways that would work for them or the group
wants to do.
And letting the ERGs have a say in that, giving them agency to kind of own some of that and
that influence those decisions is great.
And then also how are we supporting the communities that we want to employ, that we want to support
and do business with.
So this allows us to tap into new markets for a company, you know, allows them to really
do it.
So there's a lot of benefits for companies to really show up for the ERGs.
And then also, how are we incentivizing those folks to take on leadership roles in that
ERG?
That's a huge one for them because either it's paying them a stipend, given them extra
money, I mean, who doesn't want more of that, but also they want to know that they're
going to be able to grow within that organization.
So developing professional development programs.
Yeah.
Well, you said earlier, I mean, putting people in higher ups in place, I feel like that's
the biggest incentivizing, like making sure that I am not hung out to drive because
because I stepped up.
Yeah, no, for sure.
So with the exact sponsors one way that I have been able to
have impact with the organizations this way is,
if folks want to step into leadership roles
in that play resource group, they will have access to
have one-on-one time with that executive,
being able to have them as a mentor,
giving them, letting them shadow them
in their meetings.
Also having those executive sponsors do workshops
for the groups and for the company on what skills
leadership skills that they want to pass down.
This is a great conversation to have with leadership teams,
that ERGs and your employees can have a voice in as well,
because they want to know what behaviors,
and this is kind of where that inclusion starts to show up.
What behaviors, what actions can we want the company
to the skills, competencies, what have you,
that we want to have to underpin the culture of the organization,
and then now I can help and create content for that
and develop those workshops and have the leaders
lead those workshops.
Now, return on investment here,
this is very cyclical type of programming
to still develop and improve your development.
And so these are ways that I think
are important to talk about because, again,
going from face value, self-serving programmatic things
to more systemic and intentional and authentic allyship
and just showing you for your employees,
this is what's going to help keep your employees.
This is going to help develop brand loyalty.
This is what's going to track talent to your company as well.
- Yeah, you brought up something really interesting
that I wanna go back to, which is,
or maybe you didn't bring this up,
but you were talking about,
maybe I'm bringing it up.
- I'm gonna bring it up.
- Maybe I'm bringing it up,
but maybe I think it's interesting.
- It's interesting.
- Is retention.
- Yeah.
- Right, did you bring it up?
- Yeah, it does matter yet.
- Yeah, I did.
- I said it.
- Okay.
- Roll the tape.
- Roll the tape.
- So, retention, right?
Because I noticed this actually when we were both in undergrad that the school was always
about like, "Oh, you know, we're bringing in a bunch of like POC kids, POC kids, but then
the POC kids would come onto campus."
And then they would get overwhelmed because either it was like financially not sustainable,
because the environment was hostile, right?
And so they couldn't retain those students.
you also had, and I've also seen this in work environments. I used to consult for a company in
Oakland, and they had, the long and the short of it is like every black employee that they hired
had quit by the end of the year. And it was because it was a hostile environment.
>>Over time. >>Right. So I really hear, I just wanted to put like a highlight around this idea
that like, yeah, there are companies who do this thing where they're like drawing people
in, but they're not doing anything to make the feel safe and keep them.
Exactly.
And that's part of the conversation that I have with business leaders is, you know,
we can, diversity, it exists, right?
Like we, you can't deny that, right?
We can hire and go out and source, you know, talent of XYZ group, but if we do not have
the infrastructure, the support systems and mechanisms and processes and what have you
in place when they get here, it's going to be a revolving door.
Yeah.
to risk the cost the time it takes to go out and backfill roles.
You know, and not backrolls, backfill roles.
That's all your eyes raised, they're all to backfill roles in one line.
We're backrolling backrolls.
But exactly, you know, like, we want to risk that, you know, that's company money,
have you and or do we want to, you know, remove these barriers and identify these things
and create those things so they exist so that when they come here, they're going to
succeed and thrive.
That's going to help you get, you know, referrals.
That's going to help you.
All those things go back to brand loyalty, retention rates, all that.
And so those are things you want to, those, and those things for
Cougars can use just like sell, sell the cup.
But you know, we, we've done this, we do this, we have you and get press releases,
whatever, whatever company wants to do, but actually, but do it and mean it.
Right?
Yeah.
So cool.
I'm like here with two Anthony's.
I think that's what it's like to, to this idea that like, if I don't see somebody like me doing what I want to do,
I'm not going to want to do it.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
You know, if no one's like saying, hey, we value this thing or just like out that
opportunity doesn't bear and also, you know, you don't know, you don't know.
And also that same time for the way I am, you know, and if I can test this, it's like,
like, you know, my clothes mouth don't get fed kind of person.
Yeah, exactly.
So like, I will go there and like, you know, it's got me some heated arguments with business leaders as well,
but it's because I'm passionate about it, but I've had to learn, you know,
really, I've had to like learn how to play the game essentially.
I love you.
Yeah, yeah.
We all have to, right?
in this world, but I do it with intentionality.
I do it to let, hey, I'm not gonna tell you your race,
by telling you, you know what you're race,
but I'm gonna show you that these things here
mean that we gotta change some stuff around going in, you know?
- Yeah, and I'm thinking of, sorry,
I like that, 'cause I mean, it's like,
you could have played the game, but intentionally,
you know, how can I still do what I need to do,
but also make sure that I, yeah.
- Exactly.
What you're what I'm reminded of here is as a way of kind of like
Yeah, I know it's been a day. It's been a day. Um, so I think the Kaper Foundation
Kaper Foundation Kaper Center Kaper Capital
There it's by his name is Mitch Kaper and his wife Rita Kaper Klein
Kaper that's a name. No, no, that's the last name. Yeah, yeah
And then free to Capriclein.
So I bring them up and I bring up the--
- I think it's free to Capriclein.
- Yeah, that's a free to Capriclein.
I think it's free to Capriclein.
They're both amazing people.
I bring them up because, you know,
they were the original creators behind
what's called the Smash program.
And so it's a program that
prepares young students of color
to enter the STEM fields.
Like science, technology, it's all right.
- Awesome.
is that the Kaper Foundation or Kaper Capital engages in what's called
conscious capitalism, which is like taking money and funding black and brown.
But yeah, you know what I mean? And so I think and they've been very successful.
I think they are very you know I'd encourage people to check them out.
They're doing wonderful work. They're headquarters is in Oakland.
then the, how are you on time, Jordan?
- We're good.
- Oh, we're good on time.
Okay.
I wanted to go back a little bit.
- I know, it's like, isn't Jordan producing?
- Yeah, well, I just don't know 'cause it,
come on, guys, I'm tired.
(laughing)
I know.
- Let's go.
- Anyways.
- I quit.
- So, - David, you want a job?
(laughing)
- It doesn't pay.
(laughing)
- You're gonna be right back where you started
(laughing)
- Yeah.
- It's a resident building.
- Yeah, it is, it is.
You know, oh, the other thing I wanted to say is,
I've also not, like, okay, so I just went through
like a pre-doctoral application process
just earlier this year.
And I was looking for like the organizations that,
like they say, like just, we encourage students
from diverse backgrounds, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Do you know that a single one of them
offered me an interview.
- Oh, really?
- I was like, yeah, I was like,
so it's lip service, huh?
- Well, okay, here's the thing.
- Or you're not the first, you're not the first.
- You're saying, oh, here's the thing, here's the thing.
Here's the thing, here's the thing.
I'm like, either I'm not one of the smart brown people, right?
Like, so it does, I bring that up to say
that it really messed with my head.
Because I was like, did you just try to like,
seduce students of color to not like offer a spot?
But then I'm like, okay, Anthony, is it really fair to say
that they are not practicing what they preach
just because they didn't offer you a spot?
- If you had time, could you,
and you did the piece, maybe you should do the research
and just casually go in.
- Oh, I have one.
- But I mean, no, just keep it real.
I have gone back to some of those.
Well, part of it is, I think some of these situations
were really shady because there was one program
on the East Coast where they had one spot.
- Oh, it's a competitive list.
- Well, the first thought was like,
y'all have that earmarked for someone.
- I know, it's internal, whatever.
- But whatever, you know what I mean?
You mean to tell me that anyway.
So the point is is that I think there was something in there
that feels, I don't know what it is.
You know, what are we gonna say, Jordan?
- Sounds discouraging, right?
- Yeah, and I think it goes to this point of like,
even if you build it, right, and people come, right?
If you're the one that doesn't get picked
when the building's built metaphorically,
then who is it serving, right?
- Well, it sounds just like our disclaimer,
because so we say that, so we won't get in trouble.
- Yeah, well before you say anything, David,
'cause I'll forget it.
- Okay.
- I really did, I just forgot.
- I just forgot.
- Oh, no, so what I was saying is,
oh fuck, David, you go.
- Yeah.
- I'll just say one other thing too,
that, you know, what could be going behind the scenes?
You don't know what's going on behind the scenes, right?
You don't know exactly who is reading that letter,
who's making that final decision,
what their knowledge is of these D.I. related concepts.
So we're talking unconscious bias,
potentially here showing up.
- You know, and one of the situations, I'm so bitter.
And one of the situations, the three situations,
the people who made the final decisions
or the director of these programs
were all women of color.
- Yeah, and so like I said,
and so I think I'm bringing this up to say that like,
there's that fucked me up.
Do you know what I mean?
Like that fucked me up,
'cause I'm like, wait a minute,
because then one of the things I think it encourages
is like a crabs in the barrel mentality,
because then you're essentially,
at least it's been my experience,
it's like, oh, then what is the difference between
like the students of color who get offered these opportunities
versus the ones that don't get offered these opportunities.
- Right, yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean,
without knowing like their criteria, you know,
and what not, and like what else are they looking for?
What's that, what's that secret sauce?
What's that trope?
Is it how community and all,
how all they were in the community,
how, what are their services, whatever it may be?
- Yeah, it's just possible that it's working
exactly the way it's supposed to.
- Well, I think so too, right?
Because the people who did offer me interviews,
where were institutions that are known
for doing this type of work.
So they're very popular institutions,
and they're also known for doing all the things
that you said, which is creating environments
and blah, blah, blah, blah.
I even had one, 'cause I had to withdraw one
of my applications, and this is actually coming to mind.
I had to withdraw one of my applications
from a place and so Cal, and they contacted me back
and they said, you know, they, you know,
they were disappointed, not disappointed,
but you know, saddened.
And then they encouraged me to apply for a postdoc there.
- I am.
- So I was like, okay, the position
that you were applied for in the East Coast,
I wrote them a letter and called and said,
no, because I've not been finding
a replacement for the podcast
(laughing)
- In the end, I agree with you, Lewis.
I think it all worked out.
- Yeah.
- Exactly the way it was supposed to work out.
It's like, there's nothing wrong.
It's understandable.
It's like I'm--
Yeah.
You were supposed to love me.
Yeah, I was supposed to love you.
You know the other thing?
And another thing.
The other thing that brings up for me is like, so--
I've worked very hard.
And I've done all this stuff in--
like statistically, I represent less than 1%
of the population when it comes to these fields
that I'm mentoring in.
And so there is something--
it is discouraging.
- I just discouraging.
- And so I feel like, maybe why am I bringing this up?
I guess to say it's like,
- I think it's petty libale.
Well, I mean, are you aware of those who got that position?
- I know one girl.
- Let me tell you, she wasn't a person of color.
(laughing)
- Yeah, for me, just kind of what's kind of coming up for me
right now is looking at how is that process?
Like, I have to look at, you know,
well, is the criteria actually like,
is it structure, there's an objective criteria,
is there room for a biaseshow in there?
Who is looking at, and what is their skill level
in this area of identifying, hey, we want them to dress
the touch on all these points here,
but if they have this other type of lived experience,
you want to include that here, whatever it may be,
because that's a subjective situation.
And then we'll also add all the applicants,
how many are coming in our of personal color
or what have you, then versus how many enter the process,
than how many, as they move up,
like where does diversity start to fall off?
And then by the time you get to that decision point,
who's there?
'Cause then that's where you can look at something
more systemic to see what's happening internally
and then work to address that.
- Yeah, that's so interesting.
You're doing great.
(laughing)
Yeah, I, but so, so what I was thinking of is,
the way that, 'cause what you're describing to me
is the way that systemic oppression works.
So you can, for example, it's kind of like the exception rule.
So it's like we are grooming this person
to enter into this program, right?
And maybe that is a person of color, right?
But maybe that is a person of color, right?
But there's a way in which systemic oppression
is still working there, right?
Because it's the person in power that's saying,
I am dubbing you, like I am touching you,
and you get to come in, but no one else gets to come in.
- Yeah, I mean competition is real,
especially in next-basis.
Also, where are they pulling these folks from?
- Right now, right, right.
- Anything on the other side too, right?
Is that you played how many places?
- I think 15.
- Okay, and you got six.
- No, I'm not complaining.
- I'm not complaining.
(audience laughing)
- I'm not complaining.
Listen, I'm not complaining.
But to say that is, I think we are so quick to point out the negatives of the false
value.
I didn't get this, I didn't get that.
But yes, you fought hard.
Yes, you were going against all the different odds as who we are.
And you still succeeded in some spots, right?
Maybe you didn't see it across, you didn't get tens across the board, right?
But you got something.
Yeah, you know what's funny is that sometimes I feel like the podcast turns into therapy
for Anthony.
(laughing)
- It's super interesting because while we're all
for this D.I. and whatever, it's like,
it is important to have a complete conversation,
a complete conversation about like, okay, so,
kind of what you're struggling to do because
there's nothing wrong with competition,
especially if you don't really have something to do.
- Here's the thing though, especially if
there really is competition, if folks are being,
if folks don't even have an opportunity,
then that's a challenge.
I mean, in the end, like the people that I did get
interview offers from Orchette as competitive
as the institutions that didn't offer them to me.
I do, what is going on back here?
- I do think.
- We're gonna land the plan.
- I'm doing it, I'm doing it,
I'm doing it, you're gonna land the plan.
- Hey, hey, hey, get over there and produce.
I just did some signals.
(laughing)
- Lewis was looking at Jordan, like,
"Hey, come off, cut 'em off."
- So go ahead, you wanna say what?
- Well, let me just wrap up my thought.
I am hyper-aware of the fact that like,
I ended up in a fantastic place.
(laughing)
Amazing place, just as competitive as the other ones.
And the process itself was really grueling, you know?
And anyway, that's all.
- I just wanna say before we go into our like,
our podcast exclusive, this is our last episode
for the season.
- Yes, thank you for giving us a lot of time.
- I get to round it out.
- Yeah, she did.
- Okay, great, and it was wonderful.
this month has been amazing and if you listen so far,
like, you know, thank you.
Thank you so much for supporting us,
but I also want to let you know
that the Castro Country Club is a safe
and sober community center for all people
and a refuge for the LGBTQ Recovery Community.
- We provide programs and services
that help people change their lives
by supporting personal growth.
- There's more Jordan.
- Oh, I got it.
- And our vision, Jordan, is to produce
the suffering of addiction by connecting people
community opportunity and support. You can find more information including all the ways
to contact us at www.castrocountryclub.org/podcast. Yes and tune in every Wednesday at APM Pacific
Standard Time when we go live on ourcastrocountryclub, Facebook and YouTube channels. Find us or
wherever you listen to podcasts.
- Awesome.
Thank you.
(upbeat music)
- Thanks.
- You're fine.
- Are we recording?
- I think I recorded it.
- That's so funny.
You're fine, you're fine.
It's fine, it's fine.
- We'll explain.
- We didn't even tell you.
- Yeah, we'll explain.
- I know, I was not set up for success.
(laughing)
- Oh yeah, I'm just making a high bet.
(laughing)
So how was that for you, David?
- All those great.
- Yeah, I mean, I--
- It's comfortable, I feel like--
- And I feel like we didn't even,
I feel like they made, like, I was looking kind of,
we're kind of peeking at, you know,
like we could do this again and still not touch on
a lot of things. - Told you so much.
- Yeah, it's totally, yeah.
- Most definitely, yeah, there's all different ways
you can go with that.
- Yeah, there's so many ways.
- I think like I was telling before,
I think what's really important is that we have
the conversation, I think, because some people
Just don't even take this into consideration.
We kind of go blindly on to thinking that,
well, I don't know, I don't know, Humming.
But there was a time where I was just like,
oh yeah, all I have to do is apply and I can get the job.
All I have to do is just whatever.
And without knowing or understanding that there is bias
and there are other barriers that are in the way.
And really, this conversation is not really just,
Like you said, it's not really for us.
It's for the people who really need to hear it.
Like sometimes the, you know, our palm color friends who--
[LAUGHTER]
I like that.
It wasn't like--
I got that from TikTok.
And if I said, you have to find different ways
to say things because you'll get a community violation,
because they'll take you down.
I'll dare you.
How dare you black man?
And we'll go talk about DEI and a generational point of view,
too, right?
like when I was growing up, my mom is a Salvadorian.
And when Bergamchi said,
when a firm doctor was thinking,
put your Salvadorian on every college vacation.
Put it there Hispanic,
like even though you don't look,
but put it on paper,
on paper you'll look better.
And that was the expectation.
Like, oh, well, I'll get chosen just because I'm Latin.
Have a meet, remember when you look at me?
- Yeah, and similar experience for myself,
my family, family of immigrants too.
And like the older generations,
they would stop teaching as like Spanish,
though growing up,
they wanted us more assimilate
into, you know, my culture and whatnot.
And then for us, they took white on everything.
And it was until I, like, as I grew up, grew up,
as I grew and, like, you know, like,
if you want to get in place,
actually go this direction and now put your,
you know, your Latin act, your Mexican, whatever it may be.
And, you know, in my applications,
I'm going to transfer out from,
from community college to Berkeley, you know,
actually, they told me to switch my major.
Like, I was, you know, going to psychology major
and then they told me to switch to ethnic studies.
is more like exotic quote unquote,
and come in there and then like I got in
and then just within switch back.
So it's like to get in, it's like learned to play the game.
- Right.
- And so now I do that in professional science too,
but I don't learn the language.
What have you, you know, yeah, I'm so kind of packed.
- You know what, what's interesting, okay,
so outside of like if the business world or whatever,
outside of before you get in,
what are some of the things that we can do outside
kind of like, you know, because you were talking about, what did you refer to the group like,
um, the employee resource groups? Yeah, the employee is there something outside of that that can kind of,
because like, after this conversation, I feel like I want to go get a book and I want to read,
and because I don't feel as, you know, I know some things, but I'm not nearly as versed,
and I want to be versed. Versed? Yeah, I mean, I think it'd be part of it is just--
You like that, huh? It's like, I'm a versed. You see, I mean, like, what can folks do
within their communities and how you, I mean, definitely,
it's like, figure out ways to, how you can give back.
So one thing that I do when I talk to about like the three
community pillars that I can operate with, one is how we're
going to go back and support the communities that we do business
with and want to hire and what have you.
One way that I would do is like, I get our employee
resource groups, our business leaders to go out and we do
like workshops with the community.
So we did work with Goodwill before where we went out and
we started doing resume workshops.
>> I have.
>> And let me know, hey, this is how you can tailor your experience for these types of
roles, but the roles were for our roles.
So here we are now being able to, and have these mock interviews, giving them practice for
that.
So allowing them have access to some of our technology things so we can help them build,
whatever, build out the resume, what it makes their LinkedIn and what have you.
So really help develop them to make them more presentable and more competitive in their
own work and what do they want to do.
So things like that's one way, definitely educating yourself on things.
I just want to see what materials are out there, what have you, and what else can the
folks do?
I mean, I volunteer, really, I don't know.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Definitely volunteer, get out there and understand, because you want to understand that people
you want to impact, right?
You need to know through their eye, through their looks, you know, what it is they need.
And that's the best that's going to help you inform decisions and actions that you take.
Okay.
For sure.
Which you don't know about Anthony?
I'm so tired.
I was just looking at Reddit.
(laughing)
- I'm just really tired.
This has been, I'm also feeling a little self-conscious
about the stuff I brought up a little bit,
like the last stuff, 'cause I'm like,
- I love it.
- I'm always, I'm always, I'm so kind.
- No, no, no, I'm just, I'm just,
- I look over at my end process.
- Are you gonna cry now?
- No, I'm just having a process.
I think part of it is today I had an intake
where a racial thing came up into the intake,
which was very tense and clinically significant.
And then, right now I'm in the process
of applying the post-docs,
and I'm coming across a lot of this language and stuff.
So yeah, a lot of it just feels so fresh.
You know, so fresh.
- You mean a lot of this work is,
it takes, do you have to process it, right?
to feel it, you have to understand, and that's where a lot of tension can arise within
a corporate space when you're talking with cis white men, hetero, cis white men, you know,
and position--
>> To say that in positions of power, right?
>> Right.
>> And try and tell them that things need to change.
You're talking about things like oppression, white privilege, you know, the guards are going
to go up, but it's really framing those conversations that it's not about you.
about these things that exist, I have prevented and made things harder for those who are not
like you to see what have you.
But bottom line, to your point though, is it really billet process that definitely?
I mean, I think the hard part is not to take it personally.
Well, yeah, but that's what I was going to ask you.
What does self-care look like to you with regards to the work that come on, Louis?
That's such a great one.
Louis said what does self-care look like to you?
- For sure, that is a wonderful question.
One for me personally, for me,
it's taking a break from all of it anyway.
Like not having this conversation around it,
not really engaging, 'cause it is a live,
it's something I live, it's something I breathe,
it's something I do and work so it's like in the day-day.
I can't escape it if I wanted to,
but to like really, when I get home from work,
when I had work, you know, some of it is like,
let me take 10, let me take 20 or 30 minutes,
wherever you need for that.
keeping outside, writing poetry.
So I would like to spoken where poetry and do that.
- We got it. - Give me the snap.
So yes, I'm sorry.
- There was just a lot of extra noise.
- Oh, okay. Go ahead.
- And that was in your head.
(laughing)
- Yeah, that's gonna work.
- Okay, you're right.
- I agree.
You need a separation of a church and state
with whatever you're doing.
- Yeah, it's exactly.
- If there's a third church and state, right?
To have to be a separation.
'cause as soon as they all bleed together,
that's when you get tired.
Right, that's when you get exhausted
when you don't have that ability to separate.
- Yeah, even on my drive here,
David, what are you gonna say something?
- Oh no, that's just always just what I call,
my emotional well.
Like if I don't accept, I don't admit you're there.
- Emotional well.
- If it's not full, doesn't have enough to sustain the work
and those who I bring with me,
those who aren't there for,
trying to carry along or what have you,
then I can't show it for myself.
I mean, it's funny to make sure I have that going.
What can I do with that a little bit?
- That's a sweet.
- Like your chalice.
- Your chalice, your chalice run if over.
- Your chalice, yeah, exactly.
- Or these dry, you don't tap it out.
(laughing)
- Exactly.
- Wait, self-care.
So on my way here, I was like employing a lot of the things
that like I tell patients to do.
Like I was, all my drive, I was like deep breathing
and extending the exhale.
I was creating a gratitude list in my head.
And then I was looking for music.
And the thing is, if I'm miserable,
I don't generally listen to music.
And I came across this one song that I forgot
that I had done Spotify.
It's called "All My Life" by Tiesto and Fast Boy.
And when the--
(laughing)
Just by the way.
- By the way.
- Yeah.
And when the bass dropped, I felt like my soul was cleansed.
And I was like, yeah.
And I was like, oh my god, I forgot.
You know, you forget the power of music.
- Yeah, yeah, you needed that like catharsis.
You know, the piece of something.
And yet dancing is definitely,
every point of my life.
I've tried on music, it was kind of manic my back
and like, life is like that.
(laughing)
- Oh my god.
- Okay, okay, okay.
You know what that reminded me of?
When we lived together, when you would shower,
you would play Christina's.
I'm a survivor.
Is that a--
That's Destiny's Child.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
What's a Christian like, Leroy?
No, no, no, no, no.
It was a five-year baby.
Yeah, it was something where she's--
Thanks for making me.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, that song's just a whole five-year.
I'm not sure.
And that's a nice song.
But that's what I reminded me of.
Yeah, you would listen to--
I'm not sure.
So, yeah.
You play what you show.
I'm a very lyric-focused person with my songs.
Oh, absolutely.
The music is going to be very intentional.
My songs to be done just for anything
If I need to, if I want to cry, I'm going to,
I'll start interested in things going on there.
Yeah, I'll sing.
I love to hear my singing and my car by myself
and the shower.
I'm 100%.
Oh, cute.
Did you say 100%?
100% no, yeah.
I car a karaoke, everything.
And like, if I don't, then like, it's just not, I have to.
Okay, do you ever, do you ever put on concerts
by yourself in your room?
Oh, yes.
I daily naked, but yes.
Yeah.
Oh, really?
That would be still distracting for myself.
- Really?
(laughs)
- I don't know, I'm just saying things at this point.
- I just took filming my mic.
(laughs)
- You either have no ribs or a--
- No, no, no.
- No, no.
(laughs)
- I just didn't throw that in there.
- How do you sing?
(laughs)
- Very loudly, you hear him talking.
- No, because it's like,
when you're doing whatever,
I think it's not even about that,
'cause it's like obviously it's not really my,
but it's one of the things where I just don't care.
I have no concerns around me.
I can be as silly as I want.
I don't have to feel shame or embarrassment for me.
- I love your thoughts.
- You know what I do when I do it?
I cover all my windows.
(laughing)
- Guy I do.
- That's dope.
- Oh God.
- I think we're landing the plane, yeah.
- We are landing the plane and thank you so much.
- Yeah, thank you, Teeva.
- Oh yeah, so thank you all for having me.
You know, just a quick statement out there for sure.
I mean, if you're listening in and you're an employer,
(laughing)
- You're an employee.
- You're an employee of a company
that has DI roles available and/or play experience roles
and you wanna connect with me,
definitely write in, I don't know how they all do that,
but yeah, I'll leave my LinkedIn around for sure.
- Yeah, you can take it.
- Let me see how I can be that value add
to help your organization achieve the DI goals.
- I love Instagram handle.
- Do it.
in Instagram handle but not for this. Not for not necessarily. Not necessarily. Not not now. I have a brand to protect. Yeah. As usual if you are listening to us for the first time, thank you for visiting us. Come back next week. And if you're a long time listener as always, we love you, and we'll see you soon. Anthony loves you. I love you too. Yeah, we love you. Bye. All right.