Controversial Topics and Recovery: Race and Politics II w/ Thana 🏳️‍🌈 A Queer Recovery Podcast 🎙️

Controversial Topics and Recovery: Race and Politics II w/ Thana 🏳️‍🌈 A Queer Recovery Podcast 🎙️

🏳️‍🌈 Have any questions, comment or suggestions? Wanna be a guest co-host?
🏳️‍🌈 Join Anthony & LouiLou every Wednesday at 8pm PST for our podcast, broadcast live from The Castro Country Club in San Francisco.
🏳️‍🌈 We strive to create a brave space where we engage in topics of recovery, where there are no outside issues.
🏳️‍🌈 Find us on all podcast channels: At The CCC
🏳️‍🌈 To send us a voice message or ask a question: go to https://www.castrocountryclub.org/podcast

#politics #queer #recovery #podcast #vulnerability #couragetochange #emotionalsobriety #restless #irritable

Transcript

Welcome, you are at the CCC.
Where there are no outside issues, my name is Anthony I'm an addict and alcoholic another
bozo on the bus, and I care about you.
And I'm Louis Liu, my pronouns are he and him and I'm recovery for crystal meth and
alcohol, and I am always in search of balance.
And each week we strive to foster a brave space where we can engage in conversations,
centered around topics of recovery.
And our intention is to hold an inspire better spaces for more people in recovery by tackling
issues sometimes used to separate us.
- Yes, but before we do that, please like, share,
and comment on this episode.
Right, right, right, right, right, too.
- Yeah, yeah, comment.
Leave us a comment.
That's not what I meant.
- I mean to repeat myself.
- But I mean, commenting that bell.
- Exactly.
- Yeah.
Just letting it right out.
All right, and now the disclaimer,
the thoughts and opinions expressed on at the CCCR
are that when we do not represent anyone but ourselves.
And other words, we're just a couple of friends
behind a mic here to entertain you.
- Oh, and everything we say is for general information,
purposes only. Absolutely. Absolutely. So how is everyone? I am good. I was sick last week.
I was supposed to get a palm springs, but I had to do the adult thing and I realized,
I had a head cold and a chest cold. Like you can kind of hear it. I'm finally like getting better.
Yeah. It was one of those things where it's like, I stayed home all weekend. Like this would happen.
I had four days off and all four days I was at home.
It was so cool.
(laughing)
- Yeah. - I live.
- Did you do anything to you while I watch shows?
- And I didn't go to our guest today, I decided,
I'm gonna stay home.
So yeah, oh god, okay so I've been watching on Netflix.
It was a show from AMC called The Discovery of Witches.
- Oh, I saw that.
I haven't watched it yet, but I watched it.
- I watched the first two seasons on the last season.
It's three seasons, oh yeah.
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
- Oh, what's it about?
- Okay, so it's about discovered witches.
- Okay, bitch, let's move on to the next question.
- Get out of here.
- It takes place in England and France and whatever.
And it's basically the idea is that it talks about how
witches and vampires and whatever,
and all these creatures lived before
and they're kind of becoming extinct.
And so it is this, yeah.
- I mean, don't ruin it, no spoilers.
- Yeah, trust me.
What I told you now is not even like,
it doesn't even touch on it.
- Oh wow, you're so sassy.
- Well, I'm usually overwhelmed when I sign on it
to those services and I wanna watch something
and they're like three or four seasons apart.
You mean to tell me, I gotta watch all this?
Yeah, I don't have the attention span.
- How are you doing, Anthony?
- I always, what are you gonna say?
- No, I always forget.
- What are you doing?
What are you gonna say?
- You're like doing the combo of hair,
- No, I'm doing like, no, exactly.
No, I'm doing like moms who have multiple siblings.
When you have multiple siblings,
and my mom used to name everybody until she got his,
like, come to daddy.
- My name is not Felicia, my name is not Destiny.
- Are those the names of your siblings?
- Yes.
- Oh, we need a Yolanda, Felicia and Destiny.
- No way.
- Yeah.
- Let's do it's all girls and you.
- Yeah.
- Oh, cute.
- I always joke, I always like, but I'm bummed.
- Where's that sound?
- Yeah.
- So wait till I say what I'm gonna say
and then do it again.
Okay, so my father kept trying for a boy
and he almost got one.
(laughing)
- That's so close.
- Wow, wow, wow.
- So close.
- Snap my mouth.
- They have that time?
- Yeah.
(laughing)
- I know.
- My father, if he's listening,
he's all crying and they're going,
"Oh my God, my lineage is ending with you."
(laughing)
- But you're, I don't know what I'm saying.
- Yeah, how are you?
- I'm good, I've been, so as you all know,
I started residency a few weeks ago.
- You got a job.
- So I'm really tired, still adjusting to a new schedule.
You know what's interesting is that,
like there are some days where I leave 7, 30 in the morning
and I come back at 7, 30 at night.
Like those are some, I do that twice a week,
and then the other days I'm just working nine to five,
but there's just something about nine to five
that's exhausting.
- Oh yeah.
- You know what I mean?
- It's called work.
So I feel like that's the thing.
I think I feel like I'm pathologizing.
Okay, I don't know what's happening.
Our producer's laughing and I don't know.
I didn't hear the joke.
So, so I was, yeah, I guess that's it.
I've been like this whole time.
I've been thinking like, what's wrong with me?
Why am I always so tired by the end of work?
Mm.
Mm.
Mm.
(laughs)
I let it.
Yeah, I'm always so tired.
And like, and I normally go to the gym in the morning
and I haven't been able to do that.
and my partner was like, "Oh, you know,
"just get adjusted."
So I'm getting adjusted, but I'm tired.
I haven't had a true nine of five in such a long time.
- It takes some time.
- It does.
- It takes some time to get adjusted too.
- Yeah, and then I do have to deal with personality.
- That's what I know about this, but I--
- You should become a robot.
- Yeah, exactly.
- You do it every day.
- No, real talk.
Because I was thinking about like,
"Oh, I need to come home and I need to get my clothes ready
"and I have to go to bed at this time
"and I need to prepare my food to walk in them."
And that's literally the entire week.
- But how long have you been doing it?
- Right now.
Are you doing here the first part of what I would say?
- No, no.
- About how I've been doing this for a few months.
- For a few months.
- No, a few weeks.
- For a few months.
- I'm in a minute.
- But I want you to hear that.
- What?
- I want you to hear that because it's new.
And once you establish a routine,
and once you get to a place where you're no longer
freaking out about, oh God, I gotta get here on time.
You know, then you'll be able to kind of,
do you other little things like reclaim
some of my stuff.
Yeah, reclaim your time.
So, you know what Bonnie Violet always says?
Give yourself some grace.
- Yeah.
I also wanna give her a shout out in a second.
- Actually.
- But hold on, let me finish.
Just so--
- Babbin' babbin' babbin' babbin' babbin' babbin' babbin'
- Babbin' babbin' babbin' babbin' babbin' babbin'
- I listen to yours more.
- But yeah, there's more.
You know what, I forgot.
So that's fine.
- That's a nice segue.
- Yeah, yeah.
- So we wanna introduce our friend
who we're really excited to have here.
Her name's Thana.
Thana, how are you?
- I'm doing well.
I'm well-rested.
I will say, sorry to piggyback off of you,
but I am not working.
So that's why.
I'm not working.
- You have your own nine and five.
- I got my own nine to five,
and today it was HBO.
- Oh, love it.
- Not Netflix, HBO.
- HBO.
So I got rid of HBO 'cause I felt like they didn't have enough.
- When they changed, 'cause it was Matt HBO Max,
and then they changed to whatever,
and I was thinking, "What's going on here?
This is where you guys are bamboozling me.
- Oh yeah.
- I don't know.
- It was like the same thing with like AMC Plus.
I was only using AMC Plus because they had interview
with their vampire.
- Right.
- Yeah, otherwise it was like.
- The new season is on Netflix,
so I've been watching it again too.
- Oh, word yeah.
- That's the new season.
- The first season.
- I don't use HBO that often.
But like I was looking at my bills,
'cause I got this application,
we can talk about rocket.
- Yeah, it was for rocket.
- This is not an ad for rocket money.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- But.
- They don't sponsor us.
- That's the canvas, like if you guys want to sponsor,
we will say nice things.
Straight up.
- No, I was like, wait a minute,
why do I have two of the same subscriptions yet?
- I don't use my HP, and that's an expensive subscription,
so let me get in, let me get in and watch all of everything.
- Yeah, real talk.
Okay, one thing before we go to today's topic, sorry,
was that all?
- Yeah, yeah, that's it.
- Okay, well, so you know what you're reminding me of is,
I don't know if you've ever used YouTube premium,
so like YouTube without the advertisements,
that's like a life changer, right?
So I did it really?
- Oh yeah.
- Yeah.
- But listen.
So listen.
- Lewis, what's your problem?
- No, there's no problem.
I just like you said life changer and I'm all thinking,
okay, okay.
(laughing)
- If you use your-- - I can join the simple things.
The simple bitch.
- Yeah.
- I don't want any commercials when I'm watching my cat videos.
(laughing)
I do not want--
- I put on like meditation and meditative music at night
And I know if I heard an advertisement
at three in the morning,
that's super loud,
I just thought it was that much.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- Okay, I got it.
- Yeah.
- It's a live saver for those types of circumstances.
- Yeah, I'm,
(laughs)
I was like, I'm so tired.
Okay, so the last thing I was gonna,
oh my god, we haven't even started the topic,
but the other thing I was gonna say is,
so I had the free version,
and I was like, oh, this is fantastic, you know?
And then the free version was stopped.
You know how much it costs to have YouTube premium?
- Right.
- It's like 20 a month.
- Yeah, that is bonkers to me.
- No it is, that's like I was like, man.
- Can I tell you what I think they did?
Can I tell you what I think they did?
So I had the premium.
So I had like, so I was using the free version
then I had the premium.
Do you know, I think those motherfuckers
are putting more advertisements?
- Oh no.
- And stuff.
'Cause I'm like, oh okay, I see you YouTube.
You know what I mean?
- I see you, you too.
'Cause now, pick a little crack on this.
- Yeah, go on and say.
- Yeah, 'cause now I'll have like,
I'll be watching a show and this never happened.
I would watch like a 10 minute length thing
and now there's like two fucking advertisements
dispersed within them, like in dispersed.
So, what the fuck?
- So you went back to the free version.
- Yeah, yeah.
I'm trying to be like financially responsible.
- That's my dad's smart.
- That's my dad's smart.
Yeah, I'm still, yeah, I'm grad school and still Hello Broke.
- Yep.
- You know what I mean?
- Yep.
- All right.
So today's topic, this is part two of controversial topics
in recovery.
So we're basically talking about shit that people normally
avoid talking about in sober spaces,
because I think most people don't want things to pop off,
and we wanna maintain health relationships.
- Most people don't want things to pop off,
and there's some people that I will not have conversations
conversation was because I don't want to pop off. That's usually what it is. I'm
trying to like keep myself, you know, stay in my grace place, you know.
And you're gracey placey.
To my gracey placey.
Um, so I guess most recent thing, did we, we haven't talked about the debate, haven't we?
I don't, no, I don't think we have.
No, we haven't talked about the debate. Did you watch the debate then?
I did watch the debate.
And did you watch it when you were in Peru?
I was in Peru and I had.
international I was international I put on the debate and you laughed I was like this is a joke I
know exactly yeah this is a joke yeah what what is so interesting and I I don't know where I heard
this from there this idea that like you have this man who is a reality TV star who is declining
clearly has mental decline and the bar is so low and the focus was on oh is she on the answer
So they should like, this is madness.
This is like, hello, what are we in Disneyland?
Is this is the Twilight Island?
Yeah.
This is.
Yeah.
It is the Toilet.
Well, and I was watching, I don't know if it was like Jimmy
Kimor, Fallon, or I watched a lot of late night
with Seth Meyers.
And I don't know who was talking about it,
but they were saying that, oh, God, I forgot.
- I keep talking and like they're like blank spots now.
That's how tired I am.
- Let us help you.
- I feel like.
- I'm not helping you.
- I know exactly.
- That's what you're praying for.
- It was, they were basically, oh, they were like,
they were saying it's surprising how even after
that type of debate, it doesn't move the needle much.
- Absolutely.
- Although I was hearing that she is up
and she's like leading in a couple of swing states.
So my home state, which is Pennsylvania,
I think she's leading there now.
- Yeah.
- But it's super important, like if you are listening
or whatever, I mean, we're pretty fortunate
because I think that here, like we're insulated.
- Yeah.
- I can vote, I can vote more of my conscience,
which is here because I know, and maybe that's,
that's my privilege that I get to kind of decide
how I'm gonna do the net.
It's not like, it's life or death,
but it's not life or death.
Like I always vote regardless, but it's not life or death.
Like if I decide to go a different way,
it's not gonna alter the course of California right now.
But I still think my vote is important.
- Yeah. - Yeah, it worked.
- It was interesting like traveling and being in Peru,
'cause a lot of people were like trying to feel my friend
and I out like where we were on the political spectrum.
- Oh, interesting. - Even though it wasn't here.
- That's what I'm looking at me.
But yeah, once they understood,
like we're not Trump supporters at all,
like everyone's like, "Few,"
and like they just had a lot to say,
like it's just a joke for everyone,
like internationally, like just laugh.
Like it's just like a,
it's a running worldwide joke.
- Exactly, half of the country
is gonna need to be lobotomized.
- Like who yeah?
- Like, yeah.
- Don't leave a thing that he's done
as he's shown a light on the racism
that's always been there.
'Cause I think it's fascinating there folks now.
I can't believe we're going through this.
And then you have all these brown and black people
are saying, yeah, this is kind of,
like when you have somebody challenging me
for my decision to vote for Kamala, whatever.
And they're telling me that if you vote for her
then you are complicit in this, that, and whatever.
And then I'm, so the thing that frustrates me
is I get to care about all of the things.
I, because it's not selfish for me to think of the fact that democracy is, or at least
the way it is, which is not perfect, but it's on the chopping block.
And there are so many things that need to be kind of addressed, that are important.
I had a really close friend who actually was on the podcast, and he was telling me,
like he had posted something about like,
well, you're complicit in genocide and this and that
and whatever.
And then I asked him, he's like, where are you at right now?
Are you traveling right now?
You're traveling outside the country?
I mean, I don't want to take it away from you,
but it is kind of a privilege for you to sit on your perch
and tell me that because I'm less interested in jazz
thinking about one thing.
I think that we can be multifaceted and care
about a number of things and yeah, I don't know.
That's why I love that you're here because I feel like you are a firecracker.
I feel like, well, yeah, because I feel, for me, I feel like even the conversation that
started talking about, and I think I had mentioned this to you about the whole idea, I stay out
of the conversation about Israel and Palestine or whatever because I don't feel like I have
enough information, but the beauty of the podcast here is like, I want to, I'm
always trying to encourage you, but this half conversation, I think it's important
to find the right people to have conversations with. Absolutely. And like, I think for me,
like, I choose to intentionally stay out of conversation so that they'll learn
over time. And that's like definitely related to my addiction and my sanity.
Bring it back to recovery. Oh, yeah. Like popping off on the internet,
post and stuff, like it was not good for me.
And I wasn't doing anything, you know?
I wasn't, I was sure like spreading some awareness,
but at the end of the day, I wasn't like changing the world.
You know, I was just driving myself insane.
And so I had to make a decision, a constant decision,
especially as a black woman in America,
because I'm going to have things that impact me every day.
Right?
There's gonna be stressors, there's gonna be micro-aggressions,
there's gonna be racism, there's gonna be all these things.
So I have to pick and choose my battles because the odds right now are everybody not in my favor.
Right?
So I have to be intentional about what I choose to engage in and not to engage in.
And that does not mean that I don't care about it, right?
But I think I've just gotten to a point and thanks to sobriety where I do value my spiritual,
my mental, my emotional health, that it's important to do that because then I can actually
show up in ways that are actually useful to the world, right?
I feel like you have to say that part again.
Like you are mindful of the fact that you are very thoughtful about what you talk about
and it doesn't mean I don't care about it.
I think so many people dismiss it.
Like you didn't speak up on this.
I'm like, "Yeah, you don't know what I'm going through or what I'm dealing with."
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
You know, you're bringing up something that Angela Davis addresses.
They're in her book Freedom is a constant struggle.
I don't know.
She talks about how a lot of people have this opinion
about why I don't know enough about the Middle East.
And she said, I haven't read this book in years,
but she said that that's not enough.
I'm not, this is not a criticism of me.
- No, no, I, I,
- But it's not enough for us not to take a stand,
right, like not having a,
like yes, when we're making decisions,
we should have as much information as possible,
but given the gravity of what's happening in the Middle
East and has for such a long time that we don't have that
luxury, right?
That it's not enough to say that we don't have enough
information.
I guess I have to block out the noise because my stance
is genocide is wrong on any level.
Where I kind of avoid the conversation is when they go in
to talking about this idea of israel deserves this,
palisinesis, like, I don't get it.
I don't get it.
And I don't get it.
But I'm open to hearing people's thoughts.
Like I deliberately have started following those creators
or whatever, who kind of in the beginning they would
open their mouth and say things and it would be like,
no, not this again.
Stop talking.
And then enlisting and realizing, OK, first off,
this is the beauty of this country
that we get to have these conversations that they get
to challenge each other.
And that I don't necessarily need to have this gaggle
of people who think like I do
because that's going to limit me.
That's gonna keep me from growing in the way I need to.
But yeah, trust me, it's like I encourage you
to in hearing that
'cause I almost want to read that book now.
So you make-- - Oh, Angela Davis is--
- Yeah, she's amazing.
- You know the other one that's the other good one
that I like is I think it's called The Fire Next Time.
- James Baldwin, yeah, exactly.
That's shifluckin.
I was like, oh my god, that man is brilliant.
Anyway, the other thing I wanted to talk about,
well, similar, just piggybacking off of you,
is that I haven't experienced today
where I was in a meeting and executive leadership was there.
And one of the executive-- well, the executive leader
was like a white heterosexual cis man.
I won't say where they're from because I feel like you could figure out who that is.
That's a matter of Caucasian.
But he's from a place that I'm very familiar with that has historically had racial issues.
Like this city is known for having issues.
Like there are very intense racial tensions there and there have been for years and it's
a problem.
And it was like the first time that I have, since I've been in graduate school, I think
And it's been nine years.
So it's like the first time I was in a position
where like the person in power,
with literally the most power in the room,
was like a white heterosexual cis man.
And that shit brought up so much for me.
And I was like, well, what's happening here?
And I think, well, fucked me up was that
because everyone who was supporting it,
the majority of the people were women.
Number one, number two,
The other, this also makes me gag.
The majority of the people that were there were women,
and many of them had more degrees
than experience than he did.
And that fucks with me.
Where I'm like, I don't get this, you know?
But yeah, it just really rubbed me the wrong way.
And I was like, I went back
and I was looking at the hospital leadership
'cause I was like, is this what this institution is about?
And there is some diversity,
there's actually a lot of diversity
at the national level with leadership,
but it was just something about this that,
like, I don't know what it was.
You know?
And I think it was, oh, I know what it is.
I think I know what it is, is that people
were behaving differently.
You know, people were like pandering during the meeting
and I felt like there was like a lot of ass kissing
and I was like, oh my God, like are we really doing this
right now?
- With this situation and you're talking about,
this is where you're at.
- Yeah, this is where I'm at right now.
- So you didn't have much of a choice,
but is this something that you take into consideration
like a research that you do?
- Okay, when you were looking for--
- So yeah, that's such a great question
because I was talking to my clinical supervisor
and she said to me, she's like, "Anthony,
like, you know, this is,
you're getting a feel for what this is like
and you get to decide, you know,
if this is like the type of institution
you would want to work in, you know?"
And, you know, I had another supervisor say to me,
she's like, "Because this institution
pays very, very well."
And they're like, you know,
a lot of us kind of keep our mouth shut
because they pay so well.
And like, that's the--
And she made that face too.
She was like, we have bills to pay.
This is a really good paying job.
She's like, we kind of, we insulate ourselves
with the culture that we have here.
- Right.
- And the other thing I appreciated
was that they were real with me.
And they're like, you know what?
Like normally residents are protected from the hostility,
but they were both saying things
will get hostile eventually between, you know,
the executive leadership and, you know, the clinicians.
And so I guess, I guess it was like a rude awakening
'cause I've been so protected from most of that,
but now I'm like actually out in the field
and I'm like, oh my God, I'm not, like,
I'm not just this like researcher scholar anymore.
Like I'm actually in the real world
where like all of these things that we're talking about
very much exist.
- Mm-hmm.
- Mm-hmm.
- Yeah.
- That's tough, man.
It's like that you have to choose,
like why you were talking about that,
it's like, why should we have to choose,
you know, getting paid what I'm worth, my value,
or my, like, peace of mind, like,
because the best job that I have had,
I feel my life was working for the Black Coalition on AIDS.
Unfortunately, I was making no money.
I was making no money.
And at one point, I had this coworker who jokingly said,
"Don't be surprised if you show up in the doors a lot."
Because it's a nonprofit and funding
was coming from all these interesting sources.
Thank God they're still active and they're still doing
wonderful work because it's necessary.
But it's like, you have to fight all constantly.
Fight for a seat at the table and say,
hey, these things need to be addressed.
That's all good.
Yeah, go ahead.
- It's tough.
It's really tough.
like I was in your position before,
in a team that I worked on.
So I work at a tech company.
And it was just a lot of that.
You know, a lot of personalities,
a lot of white people in power that we're trying to--
- Like the one running this show right now.
(laughing)
He's laughing over there.
We love you, Steven.
- And G.B. Clear, like for folks listening,
this isn't like an anti-white conversation.
- Yeah, all right, all right.
- But more than half of the people on the other side
of the production team are white.
- You can't come to the pickup, but we'll make you a plate.
- Yeah.
(laughing)
- We'll make you a plate.
- Yeah.
- That's gonna be fire.
- That's gonna make you a plate.
- Go ahead.
- You know, it's, there's, there's,
there's questional people, regardless of the race,
there's questional people that are in positions of power
that are protected too.
Like we don't talk about that as well.
- Yo.
- You know, once you start ruffling some feathers,
It can get dangerous because Aik Shar is not always there to support you.
I personally don't trust Aik Shar.
They're all in the lead area.
Talk about people who look like us black and brown, who are there, but who are really our
allies.
Oh, gay keepers.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, that's real.
That's real.
Yeah, 100%.
Are we going to say something there?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And just like, and so like the way that you have to like navigate those situations or
the way that I had to navigate is I had to find allies that are really trust that are
up higher than me and like they're like you know horizontal as well like having those
allies of that are like true allies you know yeah yeah and they have to have power yeah
as well they have to be able to like sponsor you right because once you start ruffling feathers
and going after those individuals like it's a tough battle yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm glad
- Y'all brought it up.
It does.
I'm glad y'all brought up like gay keeper people
because there have been two situations
where I was in a subordinate role
and both of the people that were ahead of me
and had a lot of power were both women of color
and those were dreadful situations for me
in both situations they were absolutely dreadful
and I wasn't sure what was happening.
I was constantly reflecting like am I doing something?
Like am I bringing it because I am the comment
not a bit of a leader, you know?
And then I thought, I don't know.
But I've had those experiences.
And in one of those experiences,
the person who was above me was openly hostile toward me.
She would say horrible things about me
with her office store open, and she'd be screaming,
and we could hear it in the hallway.
And, right, and conversely,
I have also had white people really like step in.
And, take, 'cause in that same situation,
I, there was, there was some, I was at another hospital and there was some, I had a few
friends that were part of the executive leadership of the hospital and they were very protective
of me, you know, and they also took like a mentorship role and they were both white people,
right?
Right.
So, you know, I guess I'm, I mean, I'm saying that last part to say that like racial relations
or like identity politics are very complicated and I think, you know, speaking to power and
I, I sent that, you know, Jinx Monsoon, she was talking to Trixie and they were talking
about privilege and I live for Jinx and she was saying,
"Privilege is not having to worry about things."
- Yeah, exactly.
- That's not having to think about things.
- That's how you take what you worry about
into consensus.
- You know what, no, you're just fine.
You can walk into a situation not worry about anything.
Where I feel like the other power dynamics that exists
is like, especially when you're working in stuff.
For example, if you decide to leave a place,
you might need a reference, right?
So you have to be on good behavior,
which means you're probably holding your tongue
a whole lot, you know?
- Oh, good.
Go ahead.
- It's a game.
- Yeah, it is a game.
- It is a game.
- It's a game.
- You know, I mean, I,
(laughing)
I was just thinking about like, you know,
I've had this professional relationship
with someone for many years
and she has a lot of power over me.
And she's also, she's opened a lot of doors for me, right?
but she says the most racist shit sometimes
and some of the things she said
and down her really abusive,
but I'm like, I just need to take that L
because this person literally has,
if she didn't want it, I would graduate.
That's the kind of power that she has.
- You have to take a shower after you leave her.
- Yeah, and the thing is,
that's what's complicated and I feel like
that's what's part of the abuse is that
And I adore her.
She has done a lot of great things for me,
but there's this other thing that it's really hard to ignore.
- Right.
- Yeah.
- It's hard.
- Yeah.
Well, I think that's the beauty of like,
I have relationships like that where it's like,
they're not so cut and dry.
They're not, like I have this one friend who I think is amazing.
But thank God there's not a power dynamic in our relationship.
And when he goes off the tracks, I like to guide him back in
and let him know.
Yeah.
This might be funny to you, but I need
you to know what I'm feeling.
Because I always tell my sponsors, it's like,
what do you think about the relationship?
Do you value the relationship?
And is the relationship--
is it worth losing the relationship to be honest?
Because I feel like the best way
we're gonna be together as if I'm my authentic self.
If I'm, 'cause before I spent a lot of time
really kind of just, yeah, yeah, do whatever, do whatever.
I just wanna make you happy.
And that work, when it worked, but it didn't work.
And now, it's like, I wanna make you happy,
but I also wanna make me happy.
'Cause when we're both happy,
especially when I'm happy, things are gonna be really good.
(laughing)
- Right. - Yeah, right.
- That's a tough one. - Awesome.
- Yeah. - That's a tough one,
especially where you're at.
And any of us who are concerned with,
I wanna leave a good impression.
I wanna go under guns, a blazing or whatever,
but sometimes it's like, I gotta say what I need to say.
And it can adversely affect you.
Like, even if it's something that should have been said,
you know, I'm all, do I give my mouth shut?
Do I leave?
What's going on?
- Right.
- And like, to add another layer on top of that,
like they already have a perception or a stereotype of you, right?
Like, oh, she is that crazy black woman.
Yeah.
Right?
As soon as you start speaking up and saying your mind in a tone that they don't
jab with, it's when the narrative switches real quick.
And so it's like you're trying to navigate all of these facets.
Yeah.
And so it makes sense that you have to make these trade-offs and you have to
think about is it worth it?
Do I need this person in the end?
Like is it a long game?
Like what exactly is going on here, right?
Or what type of relationship it is?
And so I totally get it.
- Yeah.
- We could take that right back to what Kamala had to deal
with in the debate.
- Oh.
- Because not only does she,
not only does she have to worry about all the,
everything, 'cause he was just so disrespectful.
Like, everything coming at it,
but she also had to make sure that she was just stern enough,
but not so stern that she looked like she was beating him
like a angry black woman and I'm like seriously.
And like, firstly, I would have loved
if she had just said, "Motherfucker."
(laughing)
Oh my God, I would have been like,
"Yeah, you had my vote, but you got my vote,
I'm gonna vote twice for you."
(laughing)
I think that she was playing a long game
because she had that interview
and she talked about kind of, kind of,
but it was like, she said the word without having to say it.
That's power.
- Right, yeah, right.
I think she did a wonderful job.
I think she did, I was like, just clapping,
like I'm meeting her, composing.
- Absolutely.
- And the way she handled everything.
- Last week I was a little frustrated
when it first started,
because she did the politician thing
when they asked the question about,
when that's the question about,
are you better off?
And I would have honestly said, yes and no.
Like you feel people are better off.
First off, we're not in sheltering in place.
We're not where we were with the pandemic.
And I would make a point that he left us with this,
that we got to the door he gave us this big bag of mess
and we cleaned it up.
- Which also happened to Obama.
- Yeah, exactly.
And so it's like, you know, we're,
and then I wanna dove into like,
this is what we're doing to work on it.
Like, I feel like I wish it that there was a way
to get it out to people that let 'em know that we are in
Trump's economy right now.
when people complain about like everything being a certain way or whatever.
This is, we're under Trump's tax credit right now.
And people are, oh my God, it was better than Becans who gave us $1,200.
You know, he didn't give us $1,200, but he would,
he would insist it upon having his name on the check because he's a narcissist.
I'm just a, yeah.
I'm somatic.
Yeah.
Well, you know, what I'm thinking, I think the thing, what fucks with me the most,
And this was, I felt this especially during the last election,
well, the second to last election, 2016?
Yeah.
Where what, it's like that this is like what wealth
empowered does, right?
That it protects you, that you have no consequences, right?
So like even now what, he's like 80 or something,
he's like, so like even, you know what,
what's gonna happen?
He has all these lawsuits, he's fine.
Hope he did before any of that shit gets resolved.
And that so there's that, right?
There's like the no consequences
that that's what privilege and power does.
I think the other thing is like,
it's also when it feels like,
I saw this too when I was looking
at the executive leadership page
where literally like all the people of color
that were there, they had like a million degrees.
But like the other folks,
like maybe they had one degree or maybe, you know what I mean?
And I was like, and it kind of like,
like what it reinforced for me has been my experience,
which is like, oh, I need to work two times as hard,
or 20 times harder than like a white person looking
for a job because that's just the way it's always been.
Right?
And like, 'cause we're playing the credibility game.
And I think that like, and I feel like people who live
like big cities like San Francisco and New York and maybe Miami that like I think there
are ways that like you know my white friends are like why don't see it or I don't you
like that doesn't feel like it's our reality here and maybe because we're like in progressive
environments but I'm like I don't know like I have been in plenty of situations where like
you know like nepotism is like what got someone a job as opposed to like like maybe
- Absolutely, something like that.
- And like we said, let's wait.
- Just a different flavor.
- Yeah.
- Like if you do have privilege,
'cause we all have some sort of privilege,
that's not the problem.
The problem is when you think that that privilege
is not what's giving you the upper hand.
Over someone who's working hard, it's like I'm all,
if we're not able to acknowledge that you have this privilege,
'cause when folks use that tired ass like line,
I pulled myself up by my bootstraps.
My bootstraps was my mom and dad,
who were like my constant safety net
and it gave me, gave me gave me, it's like,
I'm home, yeah, okay, I don't wanna hear it.
Yeah, and I think that they're all--
- Gucci boots, traps.
- It's a Gucci boots, traps, and I think,
and I think that that, me, we can talk a little bit about
like when we have seen kind of like ideal situations,
you know, to end on a more positive note,
'cause I'm like, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck,
you know what I mean, fuck.
And here's another thing, you know what I mean?
- This is why, and I have so much trauma.
- You know?
(laughing)
- I've been in therapy all my life.
- Um.
- Rays has on.
- You know, so.
(laughing)
- Guy broke.
(laughing)
- But what I was thinking about is like,
you know, that I have seen, for example,
where like I've been in like a conference room
and a woman is being talked over,
and a white man will step in and say like,
No, actually, I believe she was talking.
So I've seen things like that.
Where I've seen--
and it gives me chills when you see someone
using their power and privilege to change dynamics.
Absolutely.
And I've shared before, we're one of the most memorable
experiences that I had during graduate school
is when this white trans woman saw that I was interested
in applying for this job.
And she's like, oh, I've worked there.
I'm going to hook you up.
She's going to help me prepare my materials and interview
and all that other stuff.
So, you know, so, so, so when I'm getting at it's like aside from, you know, like racial
politics, I mean, there's so many different forms of privilege and power.
I think it's just, for me, it's easiest right now to talk about like race.
But the thing is is that I also see that like there are people who get, you know, my
partner's way.
You know what I feel like right now?
I feel like the, the white guy who says a racist thing, but he's like, I'm not racist.
I have black friends.
Right.
And I'm like, I'm not, I'm not racist.
My man is white.
- I know it is right.
- I know it is right.
- Yeah.
(laughing)
- I have white friends.
(laughing)
- Me too.
- Yeah, me too.
- We all have a lot of them.
- Yeah, yeah.
(laughing)
- We're a multicultural democracy.
- Yeah, well you know the thing is is that,
and my therapist is white.
(laughing)
- Well because what I'm getting at
is that like not all white people are the same.
And the same way like not all black people
or Latino people are the same.
They're not all the same, right?
- I feel like the thing that's tough
is that people are so limited in their ability to see
that we're talking passionately about this.
It doesn't mean that this is all we think it.
- Yeah, yeah.
- You know, I'm saying,
"Sick, are you talking about race?"
Well, first off, I don't have the privilege
of not talking about it.
And when I speak of it passionately,
I'm speaking of it passionately
because I feel this is a brain space.
I can do that.
But I don't limit how I feel about,
do you know what I'm getting at?
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I think that,
and I think I'm also,
if I can be real for a second here,
is that I feel like I'm also coming from a place of fear
because I'm like,
oh, people listening to this,
will this come back and bite me in the ass?
Am I foreclosing on certain opportunities
because someone or something that I might wanna work for
is gonna hear this and they're gonna misinterpret
So I'm coming from a place of fear,
where there's a part of me that's like,
yeah, we're like, yes, I feel strongly about injustices
and inequity and inequality.
Of course, I feel strongly about those things
and what I feel like is happening for me right now
is like, and in real time,
I'm experiencing the fear of those power
and systemic structures, right?
- Yeah, yeah.
- Yeah.
- Look at you.
- 'Cause I'm like, I always try to get him to cry
- Yeah, I was like, "Are you gonna cry?" No. - No, I'm never cried online. - I never, I'm not here. - I never cried online. - No, but when I poke you with stuff, and I'm like, "Gh, I got damn it." - Yeah, yeah. - So, be good for the ratings. (laughing)
- I know he's always like, "He's always trying to get me to feel more than I want to feel." - 'Cause I don't cry. I don't feel those emotions. I feel some. Others are checked off, but I don't feel those. - Yeah. - I cry all the time.
I think it's a beautiful thing when like their times when I'm when I'm with myself like and I have
Have moments and what I cry about is really interesting. It's different like I
Think that what I love is that I found my empathy for other folks because I feel like I was like a lot of people
I became so dissensitized. You remember
That one was that it was like just before I got sober is like early 2000s when you had all of those mass shootings
- Yeah.
- And it was just second, it was like common place
and whatever, after a while it was like,
okay, whatever, I guess this is just it.
But then I remember there was one particular
and I heard the details of it
and I just cried like baby and I was thinking,
this is not okay and I was like, wow, you know what?
And I was able to kind of feel in that moment,
it's like, come on, okay, you're not dead.
You're not dead, you get to feel this is real.
It's like I am, and I was like, I refuse to let all of this craziness, like kind of keep
me from tapping into that part of me that cares about people.
Yeah.
That's all, that's all good.
Thank you.
Oh, I love that.
Oh, my God.
Okay, good timing.
Let's see those notes today.
The Castro Culture Club is a safe and sober community center for all people and a refuge
for the LGBTQ Recovery community.
>> You know what, I feel like this goes further and further away from me every week.
>> Okay, yeah, I guess.
>> Okay, yeah, forget that you were in contacts.
>> Yeah.
>> We provide programs and services that help people change their lives by supporting personal growth.
>> Our vision is to reduce the suffering of addiction by connecting people
to community opportunity and support.
>> You can find more information including all the ways to contact us at
at www.castrocountryclub.org of slash podcast.
Did I do four Ws again?
- Yes, and tune in every Wednesday at APM Pacific Standard Time
when we live on our Castro Country Club,
Facebook and YouTube channels.
- Find us wherever you listen to podcast.
(upbeat music)
- Hey, how was that for you, Thana?
- We're still recording just so you know.
- Oh yeah, you're still recording.
I think I enjoyed just listening to you, too, too.
- Oh.
- No, this is wonderful.
It's a really wonderful experience.
- You're having the, go ahead, sorry, go.
- I had no, I will first.
I've never, ever been on a podcast or did anything.
- You were Nathan.
- Yeah, I would love for you to come back on.
- Yeah, would you come back on?
- Yeah, I get like, I can get shy.
So I'm like, oh, you're fantastic.
- No, you're fantastic.
- You know, then I'm like, then I just started listening,
but I am like a big listener.
- Yeah, you're a very good listener.
- Yeah, I think that's, yeah.
- Are you in like a listening profession?
- No, yes I am, very.
- Oh yeah, yeah.
- I think that listening is really important.
It's like, I love listening,
before I would do this with Bonnie Violet and Anthony.
And sometimes I listen to that thing,
oh my God, there's a smart and stupid.
Like I can't do this, I can't do this.
And then I realize, you know what, that's nonsense.
I bring what I bring.
- Yeah, I think you're fantastic.
- Yeah, I think you're fantastic.
- This is a little bit like all the--
- I don't think I'm on multiple chairs.
- I'm on multiple chairs 'cause I'm a teeny human.
- That's okay.
- No, but no, thanks for bringing that up
'cause that's how I felt too, you know?
The same thing, it's like, oh, should I bring this up?
Should I talk about this?
What's like allowed?
I wasn't sure what the board was.
- You know what?
- I think, I--
- Now I know for next time.
- Yes, exactly.
- Yeah, we made sure we had to at one point,
we changed the rating on this
because I think that we wanted to be able to just express
and talk about everything,
'cause I am a big part of,
let's have the conversation,
because it's also the forgiveness piece.
I'm gonna say it, and this is interesting
because there are still things that I'm not,
from what we're talking about,
but I'm gonna say it in the right environment
around people who understand that.
I'm not language, I can't be stuck with, you know what I say?
I need to be okay for me to kind of evolve
and grow and change my thinking.
Like if I show up with this kind of backwards way
of thinking about something and I have a conversation
with you and I'm like, oh, okay,
I'm open to hearing something different,
especially if I feel like I got my information
from some back alley or from my parents
who kind of just stopped on one idea about it
and never expanded on it.
So that's not love about the podcast.
I feel like we've had an opportunity
that I haven't had in a number of years
because some of our relationships are, you know,
a little superficial, you know what I'm saying?
Like, I friends, we go shopping, we go to the movies,
we go whatever, and when you start to try to talk
about something deep, especially if you have friends
who are not people of color or whatever, you know,
sometimes they shut down, and you love them deeply,
I love you, I don't wanna take that away from you,
but I do need people to kind of let this out
because if I don't, I'm gonna explode.
- Right, yeah.
- Yeah, and I think what you're making me think of is how,
and there's a place for,
like quote unquote, superficial relationships, right?
It's like, I remember I was talking to my,
a good friend of mine, her name's Stephanie,
and she, we were talking, and I was like,
Why do people talk about the things they do sometimes?
And she goes, "And the need not everyone
is trying to talk philosophy all the time, not everyone."
And I understood that she was sometimes
we just need a break.
People just need a break.
And I am certainly one of those people who thrive
and I love kind of connected relationships
where you can be real.
And I'm also like, hyperware of the fact
that everyone's just literally just trying to live.
- You know what I said?
- I said that so many times,
I've been quoting you on that.
So people are just trying to live and it's not that easy.
I was talking to somebody else about that.
It's like, yeah, it's not easy.
Because the way, maybe my sponsor,
so, oh, cute.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- It's like I'm all,
it was frustrated about something.
You know what, you're doing the best you can.
It's like, just pay attention to that.
Yeah, we can ride that forward.
- We're literally gonna die.
- Yeah, we're gonna die.
- You know what I mean?
And there's this,
- It's in the Kiki.
- What does it say?
like a spoiler you're gonna die.
- Yeah, you know, I, you know, for real,
and I hate to be kind of like flipping
and it feels kind of like hacky to say it.
- You do this all the time.
- No, no, but it feels like marshmallow
in one of my best friends out of the house.
- I'm like, whatever, you're annoying.
- I feel like I am between two things.
- No, no, I'm here because I'm here.
- I'm here because, because I, I just wanna lift you.
- I know, and you do, Lewis, and you do, and you do,
- And you do, you do, let's do.
- Yeah, because I'm drawing, if I wanna lift you,
like 'cause it's soon as I'll, you know what,
any relationship that I'm trying to tear down,
that's not a relationship.
- No, and I feel that,
and you have transformed me in many different ways.
And I use a bottom line.
- I get it.
(laughing)
- I'm sorry.
(laughing)
- I'm dead.
- I'm talking about this butt all the time.
Boone, booty, booty.
(laughing)
- My genetics.
What was I gonna say?
- I'm gonna go on.
- You have Benji.
Benji stays on anyway.
So, you fucking threw me off.
- I love it.
- Living.
So, obviously I only have myself as a frame of reference,
but I'm like, yo, if other people wake up,
and I've got all kinds of stuff going on.
And by all kinds of stuff,
I mean, I have mental illness and like,
- Trauma and like, you know, I'm a natic.
And so, okay.
(laughing)
- Okay.
- But for real, I just feel like, I'm like,
how, do you know what an ACIS score is?
- No.
- It's the, I'll look, I always mess up the acronym.
But the ACIS score, it was, oh god, let me pull it up.
I'll just, I wanna do it justice.
There was this amazing,
this amazing doctor, oh my god, I can't believe it.
just forgot her name, woman of color.
She was the surgeon general for California
for some time, oh my God, I can't believe I'm forgetting
her name.
Anyway, so she was behind, she was one of the people
behind this study.
I think she may have pioneered it, to be honest.
But it's the, are you looking it up, the ACIS study?
So it's the physical status classification system
is the system for assessing the fitness
of a patient before surgery.
Oh no, you're looking at the room.
- Asus score.
- By all means.
- Yeah, I can't believe.
So it's the adverse childhood experiences.
- Okay, how long?
- Right, and so what she found was that,
I think her name is Nadine Harris.
I need to look her up.
- And when she's worth knowing who she is,
she's a bad guy, she's fucking brilliant.
So what she found was that the higher the Asus score,
So the more adverse experience
is someone had growing up, right?
So the EESH-E-S questions like,
with someone in prison, did you see violence?
Did you, you know, all this,
and the higher the score,
the increased likelihood that that person
would have like poorer health outcomes, right?
And this was, it's just been,
it's been used because it's very accurate, right?
That being said, I like what I'm trying to get at
is that I have a high ACE score and I'm 40 years old
and I'm still kind of like some of that stuff
still lives in my body.
And so some days are hard to fucking wake up.
You know what I mean?
And some days are like, everything could be going well
and I know all of a sudden have anxiety.
And I'm like, what if other people
are having this experience and other people
are likely feeling like it's hard to live.
And I also, even if a person has all the power
and privilege in the world,
I think that there's, you know, if they're human,
they're still gonna have--
- We have our version of it.
It's like-- - You know what I mean?
Like everyone has their version of it.
But everyone is suffering.
You know, and it's like, yeah, everyone is suffering.
We're literally just trying to live.
And where we get, where we find conflict,
and I've talked about this before,
is like we all have the same fundamental needs.
We only have conflict when the strategies
that we're using to have those needs met,
like interfere with other people.
Right, that's where conflict comes from.
- I was praying the other day in the mirror,
I was like, "Oh God, I'd like to have problems
other than many."
(laughs)
I was like, "I have some of those other problems."
- You know, I read something, I read a meme
on Reddit, it was like,
money can't buy you happiness,
but it can pay your, or money can pay your bills
or some chili, but, oh, I brewed it.
I don't remember, but it was like something like that.
- I can't buy you happiness.
- Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
- It can't buy you happiness, but neither does poverty.
- Yeah.
- Oh, and it was like, can't buy you happiness,
but poverty can't buy you anything.
(laughing)
- Oh, God.
- Look, no, that scarcity mindset.
That you're kinda just talking about
this particular fighting over resources or something like that.
Or no, no, no, no, no,
or it's like people think there's a threat
to what they already have.
- They're real talk, yeah.
- Yeah, and when we say that in the big book too,
where it's like we, that like as addicts and alcoholics,
we have a fear of losing what we have
or not getting what we want, you know.
I don't even think is unique to it.
- Yeah, I was talking to somebody, the child,
like trying to have these relationships
where I wish people well, understanding that,
what's for me is what's for me.
Like, I love that saying that what God has for me is mine.
Like, everybody can have, you know,
we can get what we want or whatever
and I don't have to worry about,
like just because this person's got it before me
or that they have it and they have a lot of it.
There's no none for me.
Yeah.
- So I'm gonna go back to Dr. Harris, Nadine Harris.
- Get her, get it.
- Her name is Dr. Nadine Harris.
- Nadine, hey Nadine,
- Yeah, yeah, she's a little English.
- Well, I'm just gonna read her, her wiki yet.
No, she's incredible.
Is a Canadian American Pedia Trishin,
who was a surgeon general of California between 2019 and 2022.
She's the first person to point into that position.
She is known for linking adverse childhood experiences
and toxic stress with harmful effects
that health later in life.
Yeah, I mean, like her work,
how she'll show you a picture and she's also beautiful.
- I bet, but that absolutely makes sense.
Oh, she's cute.
- Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, she's a badbie.
- I love it that we,
like the conversation shifted and went to,
we started talking more about the mental part of,
like a lot of,
- Like our short, our shared suffering.
- What's interesting because it's like,
sometimes we have to take that journey.
That's a true journey.
Like, I'll be expressing myself passionately.
I said about, but whatever.
But the best thing I heard, and I think I share this
like in a share at the POC meeting, it's like,
I'm all, when I heard that woman say in that POC meeting,
that anything that can affect my serenity,
I get to work the steps around it.
And that was not something that I thought,
or even that there were space whore,
because I was constantly hearing the message,
even though it wasn't the message,
but hearing the message, no outside issues.
You can't talk about that.
You can't talk about it.
Like I had a former sponsor, when we started working together,
he had talked about a sponsor that said,
"Which shut him down every time."
He tried to talk about things that he deemed
were not relevant to recovery and I'm all,
what are you talking about?
Everything that is driving me, even a slightly crazy,
if it's like, if a hang-nail is my issue,
we're talking about this fucking hang-nail,
and I'm gonna bring it to a meeting.
- Girl, I need to talk about this hang now.
- Right, right, right.
I feel like you can make the argument
that really anything is an outside issue,
but people just select what makes them uncomfortable.
- Exactly, exactly.
- Well, I got a quick story to share.
- Let's do it.
- Like, it comes to outside issues.
So I got sober in 2022,
and my using really picked up in 2020, right?
It's like the perfect storm of self-pity brewing, right?
There's the pandemic.
There was, I didn't like my job at the time,
and also there was a lot of black people being murdered.
And it was like highly publicized, right?
There was an art breed, and there was Brianna Taylor,
and then there was George Floyd,
and then being from Minneapolis, like, you know,
it was just a lot.
And so I turned to my coping tools at the time, right?
Which were alcohol and drugs.
And I remember, you know, there's this time
where I was drinking and driving a long, long, long,
long route. And I was talking to my now sponsor about it, like, you know, it's a blessing
that I never, I never got pulled over. I never hurt anyone, never hurt myself during this
long drive. And she was saying to me that, you know, I think it's, that was God because
I think that if you were pulled over and you were sentenced to go to AA, for example, and
you had shared about your experience and everything that you're going through at the time,
especially as it relates to race, politics, identity of that.
And someone said, outside issues, I know,
damn well, that I would have left the room
and never came back to alcohol.
- Absolutely.
- Oh, God, yes.
- Like, I would have never came back to any rooms
and recovery at all.
I've been like, nope, I'm good.
You know, I know, obviously I'm at a point now,
in my recovery world, that doesn't even bother me.
I wouldn't batten an eye, but I share that
because I have, share that meetings where other people
talked about their sponsors where they have had that happen.
And they're like, this is not for me, right?
And especially for someone so early on in recovery,
it's so important that we don't limit the things
that they talk about ever.
- Absolutely, absolutely.
- At all.
And that's like the most crucial time
just where we're so sensitive, right?
We're so like raw, I was very easily triggered
especially in early recovery.
And so I'm grateful that I had spaces where people
Let me talk about whatever the hell I wanted to talk about.
Yeah.
- Yeah, kind of.
Yeah, I have certainly been in meetings
and in the room that we're in right now,
where someone has like tried to censor someone's like share.
Like literally, I remember I was sitting in a big meeting
in this room and someone whose name I won't bring up,
but I'll tell you one more darn recording.
And no one in this room would be surprised.
Someone was sharing and he says to the person sharing,
I need you to talk more about you and less about your mom or something like that.
What's bothering you?
And I was just kind of like, man, you're doing too much.
This is not your place.
He gets the same three minutes at everybody else.
Exactly.
My sponsor says that and I listen to it.
I'm all, everybody gets that three minutes.
You can sit through that three minutes because it may be exactly what they need and what
somebody else needs.
And why do you even fucking care?
You know what I mean?
- You're doing too much.
- Yeah, you're doing too much.
- Right, it's not like I'm bringing a black lives matter
fly.
- I'm like, we gotta hang this up here.
(laughing)
- You keep that up, catch me outside.
- No, no, no.
- No, we're just, I'm just talking about
why my life matters.
- Yeah, hello, it's actually record.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- Essentially, some people get really uncomfortable.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- I mean, do you remember that time,
oh, this was really messy.
This was like before one of my relapses,
or after one of my relapses, there was a person,
this was 2016 again, I think, maybe even further back.
But somebody in the room, there was some drag queen
who was a Trump supporter.
Do you remember this?
There was a drag queen who was a Trump supporter,
and she was talking all this mess online,
and this is back when I, like--
- Oh, okay.
- Do you remember this? - If it was online,
I think I remember this.
- Yeah, and--
I, Connie's "Serverative."
- I don't know who it is.
- Yeah, but I think that was her drag name and I'm,
"Oh, no, she was a Latina queen."
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, go, go, go, go, go.
(laughing)
- And this bitch, she was like all over the,
she was like all over the news, like, Foxy.
- She wasn't a, she, I don't think she was a,
a drag queen, but I think, I know,
if it's the same person, 'cause,
didn't they end up getting assaulted?
- Uh, yes.
- Okay, yeah, no.
- Yes, they ended up getting assaulted.
And, but the thing is, is that--
- I didn't have anything to do with that.
- Then I, I don't know, I neither was I,
you know, violence wrong.
Obviously, but, you know, going back to this,
like, but it was clear to me that this person
was a hundred percent making a spectacle out of themselves
because they love the attention.
That is the impression I got from this person.
And then I remember like, he,
like the situation he found himself in,
and like, bro, you 100% brought this on yourself.
You did the shit on purpose.
You like, it deliberately antagonized people.
You I deliberately put yourself in a situation
where you got exactly what you were wanting.
You know what I mean?
But it was like position in this.
Anyway, it was wild.
And I remember I got on Facebook and I said some stuff
and then it just went back and forth.
I don't remember why I brought this up.
Oh, people, like that, that what I was trying to say
is like the election was fucking with people in recovery.
- Oh yeah.
- It was like, and I had never experienced that before,
where you had like outside, oh my God,
I almost said outside issues.
- Yeah.
- Where you had issues outside of the recovery space
that were like really infiltrating.
And I think, I think the reason why I said it that way
is because, you know, oftentimes I think we,
or I'll speak for myself like, I like to think
of like sober spaces as like these protected sacred spaces.
And so like, and that isn't to say that I don't want you
to talk about your political views.
That's not when I'm saying at all,
I especially fit in packs or recovery.
What I don't want is for you to say some shit
that could get me harmed.
And I don't want you, you know what I mean?
It's kind of so all of that.
- It's always tough.
It's always kind of challenging for folks too.
You can talk about what you need to talk about,
but I think that there's still that.
Talk about it in general.
Talk about it in general and how it affects you.
And I think that when I focus it in and say,
this is what I'm going through.
This is what's happening.
This is what happened.
And because there's a way to do it.
There's a way to nuance the conversation
and to talk about it and to put it out there.
Okay, but I'm gonna shut up because it's--
- It's not a one, we need to wrap up.
- Oh my God, it's a lot of fun.
- It's time to go as usual.
If you're new to the podcast, thank you for listening.
Please come back.
If you're a longtime listener, we love you.
And even if you're new, we love you.
- Yeah, that's right.
- That's it.
- Thank you so much.
- Yeah, thank you for being on.
- Of course, I hope you'll come back on it.
- Yeah, yeah.
(upbeat music)
(cou��iment music)